Headphone mixing

[bduffy]

What I've learned about mixing in headphones over the last 7 years: do your best, and be prepared to be surprised when you hear it on monitors, where you'll probably have to: a) make some adjustments, or b) tear it down and start all over. I haven't found any one easy fix for it, but good headphones and headphone amplification make a big difference.

[kylen]

bduffy - as long as you're in here what phones do you use (anyone else too!). Not that this would be a recommendation for me personally, headphones are a very subjective topic and what I hear nicely on would grate someone else's ear possibly. Just the same - whatcha using?

I settled on a set of ver 2006 Beyer DT770's which give me the kind of balance and clarity I'm looking for. My "amp" right now is a Creative Audigy 2 ZS 24/96 soundcard I shove into my laptop. I don't sense any compromise with that setup other than the overall headphone issue.

[bduffy]

bduffy - as long as you're in here what phones do you use (anyone else too!). Not that this would be a recommendation for me personally, headphones are a very subjective topic and what I hear nicely on would grate someone else's ear possibly. Just the same - whatcha using?

At work, I'm using a pair of Sennheiser HD 477's. I was using Sony MDR750s, which cost much more, but they just were not working on this setup here at work, which is a shitty one. (Realtek MoBo + ASIO4ALL ) The Sennheisers somehow translate better on this consumer-shit system. But normally, I'm not a big fan of Sennheiser.

I took those Sonys home, where they sound fantastic through my EMU 1212m and Beheringer UB1002 mixer; the sound difference with the mixer is extraordinary; at work, there was no bass with the Sony's; at home, there's almost too much. I can mix at home in headphones with relative confidence, but here at work, well, I think it's time to talk my boss into picking up one of those Behringers and upping the sound card a notch! The only reason I don't have anything better here is that this is a mutlimedia company, and 9 times out of 10, I'm getting downsampled to 32kbps, so I can get away with it.

I settled on a set of ver 2006 Beyer DT770's which give me the kind of balance and clarity I'm looking for. My "amp" right now is a Creative Audigy 2 ZS 24/96 soundcard I shove into my laptop. I don't sense any compromise with that setup other than the overall headphone issue.

I hear Beyers rule. I'm not even sure if we can get them here in Vancouver. I had to move heaven and earth to find an AKG dealer, for chrissake! I hope to try them sometime. I take it your mixes transalte relatively well? I'm going to look up your model now, and drool a bit (I freakin' love headphone shopping!).

[Kingston]

The only reason I don't have anything better here is that this is a mutlimedia company, and 9 times out of 10, I'm getting downsampled to 32kbps, so I can get away with it.

and there you are waist deep in the 96khz thread. dedication to quality really!

[bduffy]

The only reason I don't have anything better here is that this is a mutlimedia company, and 9 times out of 10, I'm getting downsampled to 32kbps, so I can get away with it.

and there you are waist deep in the 96khz thread. dedication to quality really!

Burned! Yeah, I know. It's seriously embarrasing. I was trying to stress that I will test it properly at home... I'll get me coat...

[Kingston]

was just joking. it's teh future so might as well start now.

[bduffy]

was just joking. it's teh future so might as well start now.

Oh, I know, it's all good...I've been feeling sensitive about the shit setup here, I suppoese. I also sit underneath an exposed air conditioner duct that is loud enough that I can't hear people talk to me sometimes...what am I thinking?

[JeffreyCreel]

Here's a slightly different but related question. I know my ears are not very precise as is- I've probably already damaged them from listening to loud music and getting very many ear infections - not to mention I don't have very precise listening "training" to begin with. I'm using a crappy laptop to mix on with a crappy soundcard, and mediocre headphones. All of this in mind, it's a given that the best I'm hoping to achieve is a mi that isn't too obviously grating or glaring for the average listener - not necessarily that "studio magic"

So the question, given this situation but knowing that I have access to all the free plugins available - spectrum analyzers, auto analyzing EQs, and the like, can I use theoretical knowledge + good software control + a very rough ear to achieve generally "good" mixes? Or will I be up the creek until I learn exactly what my ear is missing, get a good mixing/monitoring environment set up, etc?

[bduffy]

Here's a slightly different but related question. I know my ears are not very precise as is- I've probably already damaged them from listening to loud music and getting very many ear infections - not to mention I don't have very precise listening "training" to begin with. I'm using a crappy laptop to mix on with a crappy soundcard, and mediocre headphones. All of this in mind, it's a given that the best I'm hoping to achieve is a mi that isn't too obviously grating or glaring for the average listener - not necessarily that "studio magic"

So the question, given this situation but knowing that I have access to all the free plugins available - spectrum analyzers, auto analyzing EQs, and the like, can I use theoretical knowledge + good software control + a very rough ear to achieve generally "good" mixes? Or will I be up the creek until I learn exactly what my ear is missing, get a good mixing/monitoring environment set up, etc?

My take on that, quickly, would be that you should follow common sense/good theory practices (highpass instruments, subtractive EQ'ing, etc) as much as possible and know that you've got one foot in the creek. I suck at reading analyzers myself, but I'm tempted to suggest AAMS, which will analyze your music against a reference, which you can use to see where your mix deviates from commercial mixes, and where problem areas are in your mix. I've learned a lot from it. It will also "master" your track, based on the references; it's pretty handy. HarBal is another option, popular here.

[Kingston]

Or will I be up the creek until I learn exactly what my ear is missing, get a good mixing/monitoring environment set up, etc?

It'll be extremely difficult, but it is possible. I guess the better thing would be to invest even in very small monitors. They don't have to be super studio quality/expensive either. With a reference like that around it'll be a much easier learning process.

I've found headphones alone are far too forgiving on glaring panning, frequency overlap and transient problems. You can learn to spot them, but you need the reference. (double checking the sound at other studios/homes will help as well.)

[wrench45us]

I do all my mixing in headphones. I don't have much choice. I believe it's possible to 'calibrate' your ears to get pretty close.
The surprises I do get are usually hot percussion transients -- the ears under headphones fatigue on those and adjust to more acceptable levels. You just have to watch it.
I have made adjustments once I get it on a system and I have gone in some tight circles carrying CDs from system to system and making adjustments.
But I still maintain it's possible to get pretty close if you're willing to run through the 'calibration' procedures/experiments.

[where02190]

When the client want's to listen loud, I oblidge, hit play and leave the room, after I explain to them in muso terms the affects of the fletcher munson curve.

For decades the "industry standard" (for lack of a better term) has and in many cases still is the NS-10 and auratones. Both shitty little speakers, but also very unforgiving. You don't need huge monitors to create huge sounding mixes, in fact quite the opposite. By creating mixes that sound huge on small speakers, similiar to creating huge sounding mixes at low volumes, these mixes will translate well to larger systems. But, as with higher volumes, the opposite is generally not true, and mixes created in larger systems most times do not translate to smaller speakers.

Even with all the choices available today, the NS-10 is still the predominant monitor in the majority of studios (alongside others for comparison) and the choice of top engineers. Not saying you should spend the morgage to get a pair of these long discontinued valuables, but there are many other small and inexpensive monitors that to justice well to a mix in a properly tuned room, the other major factor in a good mix. My particular favorite is the KRK Rockit 5's, which, ast $300/pr, are amazingly great monitors.

[Kingston]

ahh the old ns-10 myth.

lest we forget, they happened to be the cheap available "standard" monitor that because of the relatively low cost many radios and studios used as a reference back from early '70 to eighties. in that time a generation of engineers learned all they knew of mixing/recording using those average monitors. yep. too late to change now. oh dang.

all it means it is that you can learn any half decent monitor really well, and generate well translating mixes using them.

knowing the monitoring = good mixes and translation.

the NS-10 itself has nothing to do with it.

[where02190]

If it's such a myth, explain why more top selling recordings were mixed on them than all other monitors combined over the last 25 years?

That's no myth, that's reality.

[The Chase]

Some things...

- The NS-10's are my favorite monitors
- Still, Kingston's pretty much right. They are standard because they are standard, if that makes sense. I wouldn't say it's a myth, because they are indeed very honest, but they aren't really worth buying anymore. They were discontinued for a reason.