How much sampling can you get away with?

[Rellik]

I've recently been listening to Amon Tobin and Venetian Snares for the first time....



Such great stuff! I'm inspired to learn from their example - but so much of their style is derived from sampling other tunes (especially, in the case of Amon Tobin, jazz and classical symphonic stuff, and in the case of Venetian snares, that amazing Rossz something something something Hungarian album), and that's not something I have done before. I've always composed my stuff the traditional way - with notes notes that go into synths and samples and multisamples. But even if I were to avoid capturing specific phrases and using them as the basis for my music (I'm still a fan of notes, and I don't think I'll ever be able to justify focusing my music on the works of others to myself), I'm still very interested in creating the types of textures that need real sampled live-played recorded material as their seed.

So these guys don't get in trouble for sampling what they sample? Classical stuff, Billie Holiday recordings, amazing acoustic bass marimba and vibe recordings - did they have to pay off royalties for ALL of this stuff? If not, I'm going to start filling up a huge external hard drive with material for sampling RIGHT NOW

[krushing]

They probably have a small army of lawyers handling sample clearing.

[iDumi]

or mask your 'stolen' sample so good that no one could ever tell it's not you that recorded that piece

[Mr. Tunes]

well interestingly enough, amon tobin's new album foley room is a departure from this old style that he used to encorporate. much of the soundscape on the album is derived from foley sounds like motorcycles, bees, mechanical structures, or live sessions with players like the kronos quartet. i think this shows us how strenuous keeping up a career based on sampling records can be these days. i'm sure in his earlier days it was a lot easier to get away with murder.

there's also microsampling to consider too - taking slices of samples so small no one can identify them.

a lot of people on kvr though say that if you're music isnt getting widely released then don't worry about it. my feeling is though if your aspirations are that low you got more problems than sampling clearances. you can't build your style of composition out of something you can't maintain if you ever do find some success or else your career will fall apart. people like z-trip and the avalanches have been lucky that they have devoted followers and business colleagues who are patient enough to go through the paces of clearing music with them through processes that can take years.

[BertKoor]

So these guys don't get in trouble for sampling what they sample?

They play it legally nice: ask permission to use it and pay for it. Those are the rules and then there's nothing to worry about.

If you're going to use samples and don't get them "cleared" (ask permission etc) then you may get into problems once your track makes a bleep on the radar of bigger forces.

For private use / bedroom noodling: don't let that stop you doing your hobby. Call it "educational and private use" and don't go publishing the tracks. Once you find a label that wants to sign you, they can take the legal work off your hands... (if it's worth it!)

Some suggested reading material:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/onemusic/le ... ep01.shtml
http://emusician.com/tutorials/emusic_clear/

[The Chase]

Amon Tobin didn't go anywhere near sample clearence until recent years.

Early hip hop, vinylistic and DnB producers got away with it back in the day because they were dubplate culture: the records where most often white labels, DJ's getting paid under-the-table in warehouses and such.

Today they either have to clear the sample, test their luck, use samples that are free domain, use samples that have been sampled 309854309 times so the chances of the owner suing them are less, or use samples from people they know don't care about the content being sampled (see: The Winstons' Amen Break).