Headphone mixing

[AKJ]

why not use a simple logic:
in the real world, people will listen to your music with pseakers and headphones. In the times of the portable MP3 players and IPods it will be an increasing amount using the latter. Thus, obviously:
a) to get good results on both, check it on both
b) just using monitor speakers will give you a wrong impression of how it sounds with headhones
c) just using hgeadphones will give you a wrong impression on how it sounds with speakers
d) good headphones are cheaper than a good pair of headphones
e) most people will not have good let alone high-end speakers, but some kind of ghetto blaster, cheap hi-fi system or a multimedia speakers
f) use good headphones + cheap multimedia speakers (why not a 2.1 system with a subwoofer whichg you can switch off) and you can produce a well translating mixes even if you are on a budget.

well, this is at least what I do.

[sb.net]

why not use a simple logic:
in the real world, people will listen to your music with pseakers and headphones. In the times of the portable MP3 players and IPods it will be an increasing amount using the latter. Thus, obviously:
a) to get good results on both, check it on both
b) just using monitor speakers will give you a wrong impression of how it sounds with headhones
c) just using hgeadphones will give you a wrong impression on how it sounds with speakers
d) good headphones are cheaper than a good pair of headphones
e) most people will not have good let alone high-end speakers, but some kind of ghetto blaster, cheap hi-fi system or a multimedia speakers
f) use good headphones + cheap multimedia speakers (why not a 2.1 system with a subwoofer whichg you can switch off) and you can produce a well translating mixes even if you are on a budget.

well, this is at least what I do.

hey, that's what i'm doing. i have some monitoring headphones and a 2.1 system without the bass on.

i didn't get "d" though.

[AKJ]

ok, in d) it must be "good headphones are cheaper than good monitor speakers", of course.

[AKJ]

I switch the subwoofer on and off. with it on, you get an impression how it sounds with exagerated bass, without, you have an impression how it sounds an a system with weak bass.

[Rellik]

That's basically how I mix -

I've got my Sony MDR-7506's, which I do most of the mixing and composition on (I tend to work a lot at night, and waking my roommate up is not a great option), and then my terrible crappy multimedia 2.1 system. Here's the process:

(1) get a decent mix on the headphones
(2) listen through 2.1 - it will most likely be very heavy in the low-mid
(3) adjust so that it sounds good on 2.1
(4) listen through headphones - it will most likely sound even better than it did before you mixed through the 2.1, but make small adjustments until it's perfect

[JeffreyCreel]

your logic is bad. I think I'm pretty convinvd tat it doesn't matter what you think your mix sounds like on headphones. the way music sounds on a pair of headphones is basically an illusion , much like how a view looks through a glarey window that depends on what's BEHIND the window, not what's BEYOND it - The way a mix sounds on headphones is because of things like your particular inner ear structure, the frequency sensitivity biases of the headphones, the lack of real-world stereofield phenomena, etc. Haven't you ever noticed that the sounds sound like tehy're coming from INSIDE your head?

You don't even have to check what it sounds like on headphones to make a good mix. It's going to sound widely different to every person who listens - even on the same pair of headphones, and from there, it's going to sound even more widely different from pair of headphones to pair of headphones. almost everything sounds acceptable on a pair of headphones because you don't have to deal with the realworld effects of stereo interactions and bass/mid reverb.

If you mix something satisfactorily on a basic set of midrange monitors, it will sound good (if not necesarily "consistant" or "the same") on headphones.

[bduffy]

That's basically how I mix -

I've got my Sony MDR-7506's, which I do most of the mixing and composition on (I tend to work a lot at night, and waking my roommate up is not a great option), and then my terrible crappy multimedia 2.1 system. Here's the process:

(1) get a decent mix on the headphones
(2) listen through 2.1 - it will most likely be very heavy in the low-mid
(3) adjust so that it sounds good on 2.1
(4) listen through headphones - it will most likely sound even better than it did before you mixed through the 2.1, but make small adjustments until it's perfect

Yeah, that's my basic process. I do tons of tracking/mixing late at night, no option to unplug much, and I just save that version of the song with "headphones_home_CheckInMorning" on the end, then I know I need to check it on 2.1 the next time I visit.

[chris_b]

It's irrational

Perhaps...but once you throw humans into the equation you can't rely solely on logic to dictate precisely what's right or wrong in such situations...maybe NS10s have a certain character that makes them somehow appealing despite them being far from "technically perfect"?...like SM58 microphones or DT-100 headphones etc.

Well, that's not exactly a rebuttal of your argument...I think the reality of the situation transcends your analysis.

[psylevation]

I have studio monitors and a decent set of headphones, I make very bass oriented music (psytrance) it seems that if I do most of my creation in the headphones that I can hear alot of the problems with bass and kick interacting. I can also seem to get a better balance between the sounds and I don't over crowd the mix. Then I switch to the monitors, maybe the bass and kick need to be louder, or quieter, it just depends. But if I continue to create on the monitors after that I seem to just mess the mix up and screw up all the sounds.

Once I'm done with the creation part, then moving to the monitors to do the final mix and mastering seems like the best solution for me...

Maybe I'm a unique case, but I seem to lose control of what I'm doing when the sound is out in the open, or maybe I try to over control it, it's hard to say, but I've been creating more in the headphones lately and I seem to get more done faster and of better quality using headphones...go figure...

[Kingston]

maybe NS10s have a certain character that makes them somehow appealing despite them being far from "technically perfect"?...like SM58 microphones or DT-100 headphones etc.

I've been trying to find this research I heard of on this exact issue (it's gone on long enough that there's at least a bit of reliable data available) where they analysed something like 7 semi standardised near-fields. Oddly enough they came up to the conclusion NS-10 was best (for reasons I'd really like to double check), but then it turns out the research - while independent - was authored by an engineer who had just happened to heavily base his speaker design on the NS-10's good aspects.

Covert marketing or hard science? I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between.

Well, that's not exactly a rebuttal of your argument...I think the reality of the situation transcends your analysis.

of course. just providing an alternate view on the issue here.

[AKJ]

your logic is bad. I think I'm pretty convinvd tat it doesn't matter what you think your mix sounds like on headphones. the way music sounds on a pair of headphones is basically an illusion , much like how a view looks through a glarey window

I hope your ears are better than your logic. but we could agree on that everything is an illusion

[diverdee]

[where02190]

Thus, obviously:
a) to get good results on both, check it on both
b) just using monitor speakers will give you a wrong impression of how it sounds with headhones

In the case of point b, nothing could be further from the truth. A mix done in a properly acoustically tuned control room will translate fine to headphones.

Rellik, you couldn't have chosen worse headphones to attempt to mix on. The 7506's are absurdly bright, which is why musicians love them for monitoring, but they are extremely inaccurate. Also, why waste time in cans, killing your ears, when you end up on monitors anyway?

Seriously, get your ears out of those 7506's, they are extremely bright and especially deceiving as to how loud you are monitoring. You can do some serious damage with them over not a long period of time without realizing, and once done, hearing damage is permanent.

[where02190]

Thus, obviously:
a) to get good results on both, check it on both
b) just using monitor speakers will give you a wrong impression of how it sounds with headhones

In the case of point b, nothing could be further from the truth. A mix done in a properly acoustically tuned control room will translate fine to headphones.

Rellik, you couldn't have chosen worse headphones to attempt to mix on. The 7506's are absurdly bright, which is why musicians love them for monitoring, but they are extremely inaccurate. Also, why waste time in cans, killing your ears, when you end up on monitors anyway?

Seriously, get your ears out of those 7506's, they are extremely bright and especially deceiving as to how loud you are monitoring. You can do some serious damage with them over not a long period of time without realizing, and once done, hearing damage is permanent.

[bduffy]

I can vouch for that: the MDR's sound almost overdriven on the highs, fatiguing as hell.