KVR Audio

advaya · Post by **advaya** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:39 am

Compyfox wrote:It's just strange, that I wrote a couple of in-depth reviews about a handful of "new toys" from the fair. Sure, no fancy pics, but it's still a coverage. If it's turned into calling names (not my fault, btw), it's not my problem.
But it seems like "pictures are pretty", however FrankT didn't post that much than "OMG Look here, and look there, OMG STRINGS!", so this sure isn't any "coverage" or "report" at all, it's basically a slideshow only. Does this make it a reason to start an own thread, with the very same basic topic? Okay... I mean, people got to express themselves!
It just looks like I blew a whole evening after "my" visit to the fair for nothing.
Next year I'll just wank over the new stuff and keep my mouth shut while saying "you want news? Grab the next nearest magazine that covers the Musikmesse" - simpler, no stress at all. Well, I got "my" informations after all.

Has the whole world gone entirely mad?

pschelfh · Post by **pschelfh** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:46 am

advaya wrote:
Compyfox wrote:It's just strange, that I wrote a couple of in-depth reviews about a handful of "new toys" from the fair. Sure, no fancy pics, but it's still a coverage. If it's turned into calling names (not my fault, btw), it's not my problem.
But it seems like "pictures are pretty", however FrankT didn't post that much than "OMG Look here, and look there, OMG STRINGS!", so this sure isn't any "coverage" or "report" at all, it's basically a slideshow only. Does this make it a reason to start an own thread, with the very same basic topic? Okay... I mean, people got to express themselves!
It just looks like I blew a whole evening after "my" visit to the fair for nothing.
Next year I'll just wank over the new stuff and keep my mouth shut while saying "you want news? Grab the next nearest magazine that covers the Musikmesse" - simpler, no stress at all. Well, I got "my" informations after all.
Has the whole world gone entirely mad?

Yep, it's a side effect of global warming. It slowly boils our brains !

Peter.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:20 pm

Armadillo wrote:I do like how their new sample player works; changing articulations automatically according to how you play

Looks like this is the "new trend" then. No keyswitches anymore, everything's automatically from now on. Audio Impressions started it, EW copied it.

The only problem however... yet another "sample specific player" bundled. And there I was getting Kontakt for that purpose only in terms of "Kontakt/Intakt Player based VSTi".

Good or bad move? Who knows.

BTW:
My brain is all juicy jell-o already, so ignore me - I'm just an engineering zombie who likes to chomp on his keyboard.

Armadillo · Post by **Armadillo** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:42 pm

Compyfox wrote:
Armadillo wrote:I do like how their new sample player works; changing articulations automatically according to how you play
Looks like this is the "new trend" then. No keyswitches anymore, everything's automatically from now on. Audio Impressions started it, EW copied it.

Not sure who got it first. I think VSL released something along those lines a few months ago.
And of course with the scripting now in Kontakt 2 Bela D's Celtic winds got "auto articulations" as well.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:03 pm

Well not knowing what was "behind the scenes", nobody knows for sure what took how long, etc.

Then again, I'm really curious if this system has a future and works really 100% flawlessly, and what about the CPU usage (it has to decide in milliseconds whether or not it's legato, staccato, etc).

Guess I wait out on the next "feature instruments", and look for the day, where this all is ironed out. Though it's still a nice idea. Saves you a lot of learning in terms of "OMG how I play this now so that it sounds real" and manual keyswitching afterwards indeed.

pschelfh · Post by **pschelfh** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:06 pm

I'm just afraid of the 64bit part. Does this point to the internal engine of the program or do you need a 64bit operating system to run it ?

Peter.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:17 am

Well if it's coded correctly, it should support 32bit applications. And seeing as only Sonar and the upcoming Cubase 4 64bit (free update or not, wasn't mentioned in the latest BEAT Germany Magazine) support 64bit, it should run flawlessly.

Then again, if they mean 64bit more like "64bit samples", that's totally overkil. Heck HDDVD audiostreams don't go higher than 24bit either (DVD-A is 24bit, and DVD AC3 is 16bit btw)!

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:09 pm

FrankT said "The performance and sound was really amazing! For A2 owners, however, it is a pitty that Ik seemingly will release this as quasi new product. Hence, it's no surprise, that NI claims that with GuitarRig2 you can create Hendrix sound - without the need of buying an additional software package!"

This isn't really true. Neither GR2 or AT2 have all of the pedals and amps from Jimi's rig modeled... but the AT2 Jimi Hendrix Edition DOES model pedals such as the Univibe, Mosrite Fuzzrite, Maestro Fuzztone, Axis Fuzz plus the particular Marshall and Fender amps, Sunn Cabs etc. that Hendrix used. That's how you get the closest to the "Hendrix Sound"... by modeling the vintage gear he used. That's what the AT Jimi Hendrix Edition offers. It is not a PITTY that it is a separate product, it is the exact opposite... a nice addition of amp and effect models is what it is. It's also nice that it is, on it's own, a less expensive "vintage flavored" guitar amp and effect software package (that's even less for AmpliTube 2 users to add the additional models to their set up via a crossgrade discount). Unfortunately that doesn't exist for Guitar Rig and suggesting that Guitar Rig may already have the same ability to get the Hendrix sound is, in my opinion, a rather ignorant thing to say. I was surprised because I was otherwise enjoying this report until I read that... I took personal offense because I've actually purchased and sent over a lot of the vintage gear that has been modeled in Italy so I know what it took for this to exist and I for one am very excited about the new modeling work and have respect for the accomplishments in development that have been achieved with this product (which I have already and I think it is amazing).

FrankT · Post by **FrankT** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:04 pm

No need to get excited. I said that the sound is amazing. And I never said you can get his sound with GR2. I only said that some people claim this.

IK Marketing: Will I - a A2 owner - shell out another $200 for such special editions? No. Sure, other people will and they will get value out of it.

If you quote, do it correctly.

Squids wrote:FrankT said "The performance and sound was really amazing! For A2 owners, however, it is a pitty that Ik seemingly will release this as quasi new product. Hence, it's no surprise, that NI claims that with GuitarRig2 you can create Hendrix sound - without the need of buying an additional software package!"

Squids: This is simply an ignorant comment not to be taken seriously by anyone. Neither GR2 or AT2 have all of the pedals and amps from Jimi's rig modeled... hence the AT2 Jimi Hendrix Edition which DOES model pedals such as the Univibe, Mosrite Fuzzrite, Maestro Fuzztone, Axis Fuzz plus the particular Marshall and Fender amps, Sunn Cabs etc. that Hendrix used. That's how you get the closest to the "Hendrix Sound"... by modeling the vintage gear he used. That's what the AT Jimi Hendrix Edition offers. It is not a PITTY that it is a separate product, it is the exact opposite... a nice addition of amp and effect models is what it is. Unfortunately that doesn't exist for Guitar Rig and suggesting that Guitar Rig may already have that is bullshit. It takes a lot of work to model additional gear and that's what this product offers over Guitar Rig. It IS a PITY that some people don't know what they're talking about.

Oh and let's not forget that for some people getting JUST the AmpliTube 2 Jimi Hendrix Edition they have a nice vintage guitar amp and effects solution on its own for a half the price of Guitar Rig. If someone owns AmpliTube 2 they get a crossgrade discount so it is only $199 or less. Consider that a good model of a Univibe alone at least to me and many people I know who drool over this $1,800 vintage pedal is worth that price.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:14 pm

Quite frankly in Guitar Rig 2, a lot more stuff came as a free upgrade I think with version 2.2 update......whereas in AT2 they are expecting us to pay for all this new stuff.... which obviously is their right, however kudos to GR2.....plus my biggest gripe with AT is that you can't use midi controllers to control any parameter in real time, which to put it mildly is lame.
rsp

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:16 pm

FrankT wrote:No need to get excited. I said that the sound is amazing. And I never said you can get his sound with GR2. I only said that some people claim this.

IK Marketing: Will I - a A2 owner - shell out another $200 for such special editions? No. Sure, other people will and they will get value out of it.

If you quote, do it correctly.

Squids wrote:FrankT said "The performance and sound was really amazing! For A2 owners, however, it is a pitty that Ik seemingly will release this as quasi new product. Hence, it's no surprise, that NI claims that with GuitarRig2 you can create Hendrix sound - without the need of buying an additional software package!"

Squids: This is simply an ignorant comment not to be taken seriously by anyone. Neither GR2 or AT2 have all of the pedals and amps from Jimi's rig modeled... hence the AT2 Jimi Hendrix Edition which DOES model pedals such as the Univibe, Mosrite Fuzzrite, Maestro Fuzztone, Axis Fuzz plus the particular Marshall and Fender amps, Sunn Cabs etc. that Hendrix used. That's how you get the closest to the "Hendrix Sound"... by modeling the vintage gear he used. That's what the AT Jimi Hendrix Edition offers. It is not a PITTY that it is a separate product, it is the exact opposite... a nice addition of amp and effect models is what it is. Unfortunately that doesn't exist for Guitar Rig and suggesting that Guitar Rig may already have that is bullshit. It takes a lot of work to model additional gear and that's what this product offers over Guitar Rig. It IS a PITY that some people don't know what they're talking about.

Oh and let's not forget that for some people getting JUST the AmpliTube 2 Jimi Hendrix Edition they have a nice vintage guitar amp and effects solution on its own for a half the price of Guitar Rig. If someone owns AmpliTube 2 they get a crossgrade discount so it is only $199 or less. Consider that a good model of a Univibe alone at least to me and many people I know who drool over this $1,800 vintage pedal is worth that price.

I edited out some of the excitement.

But, anyway, each person is different of course. But to really understand what it is, it's not just as simple as shelling out $200 for special editions but really, if you are an AT2 owner then you are buying the additional models. They are different. It's not just the same stuff in AT2 (or in GR2) with new presets. It is different components such as the gear list you see on www.amplitube.com It could also have been called "The Vintage Collection" or something like that because it adds in JUICY collectible desirable models of vintage gear that even if you don't know or like Hendrix are STILL great to have. Just the variety of fuzz boxes alone I think are something any GR2 or AT2 user should foam at the mouth over... if you like fuzzes. I mean, the amount of guitarists that use fuzz boxes to get certain character tones are immense... Brian May, Jimmy Page, David Gilmour, Keith Richards (not to mention modern rock, punk, alternative, metal guitarists).

Anyway, to each his own... I just found your comment to be odd in a Messe report. No need to bash IK for putting out a cool product like this. But maybe you didn't really understand what it was perhaps. It's not just a "Hendrix Patch" gimmick. It's a really serious effort in accurate modeling of the vintage gear he used. It sounds different than both GR2 and AT2. It's its own thing and anyone should get it if they like the sound it produces... simple as that in my opinion.

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:25 pm

zvenx wrote:Quite frankly in Guitar Rig 2, a lot more stuff came as a free upgrade I think with version 2.2 update......whereas in AT2 they are expecting us to pay for all this new stuff.... which obviously is their right, however kudos to GR2.....plus my biggest gripe with AT is that you can't use midi controllers to control any parameter in real time, which to put it mildly is lame.
rsp

Well, the upgrade from AT1 to AT2 was a much greater step than GR1 to GR2. But different companies, you can't compare directly what one does with their updates. Some are free and some are not. But, the Jimi Hendrix Edition is not an update, it is another product that sells on its own (nice price for someone to get a vintage flavored AT2) and with the crossgrade price AT2 owners can add QUITE A LOT OF STUFF (ie. much more than NI would give you for free in an update guaranteed) and is totally worth the money... that is if you value the gear that has been modeled plus everything else (Hendrix presets etc.).

As for midi control... there are tradeoffs. While it would be nice to have SOME control (like you have in AT2 Live) and this is lacking at the moment (although I think this will be updated... for free). The bigger plan is to have much deeper control possibilities through the Stomp IO than is possible with Midi. Better resolution, more parameters and even control of every editing function so you can use that controller without even the need of seeing the computer screen. That's not lame at all. Sure it costs more because you have to get the Stomp IO but it is the most powerful foot control/processor system ever made. Different scope.

I know it would still be nice not to have to spend any additional money to have at least basic midi control of parameters and patch switching... from what I understand it is something that is coming in a free update.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:35 pm

I hope the midi control over parameters are coming soon. Whilst it is great that they can configure the Stomp IO to be all that and a bag of chips. I have AT2, GR2, and GearBox from Line 6. I do not want to have to have three seperate foot controllers to be able to play each, already GearBox can be controlled by Midi CC data, which is preset, GR2 takes it a step further with midi learn. Only AT2 has zero of that, which still in my opinion is lame. If it wasn't in the initial release it should be in the first update. How does one play for instance a wah wah pedal with other real time conrol?
I don't buy that AT2 and ATJH are two different products. I am sure GR2 will be continously updated with more stuff. I have no problem if they want to charge me for additional effects/amps etc. but when if they were to try and pretend these additional stomp boxes etc are an entirely new product like what IK is doing I would call them up on it as well.
Plus really is it that IK is saying that if I have a modelling of the exact Univibe that JH used vs, say a Univibe model made in 1975 the former will make me sound that much more like Hendrix? Yes it will sound different, but as I said earlier Hedrix sounded like Hendrix mostly because he was Hendrix not his gear. Eric Clapton using Jimi Hendrix gear will not sound like Hendrix. Hendrix playing EC gear will sound more like Hendrix than EC playing Hendrix's gear.

By the way I assume you know that with GR2, their Rig Kontrol can do all they want it to do, without limiting the ability to let third party midi controllers have a piece of the action too.
rsp

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:52 pm

By the way Dave, notwithstanding above I always love your enthusiasm towards the gear you produce/sell/part of the creation of

rsp

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:30 pm

zvenx wrote:By the way Dave, notwithstanding above I always love your enthusiasm towards the gear you produce/sell/part of the creation of
rsp

Thanks.

If you say you're willing to pay for additional amps and effects then the Hendrix Edition WILL be that AND it's own product though. That is what I think is so great about it (better than JUST additional effects). Why? Well, for a guy like you (and me) who buys a bunch of them it is of no benefit but to the guy who maybe ONLY had $250 to spend and wants a complete rig it is GREAT that it is also it's own product. He's PSYCHED to be able to JUST get the JH rig and not have to ALSO buy a $399 or more product to "expand it".

I am not 100% sure because although I've helped by sending my pedals and discussing the product with the developers... I am only a sound developer and not the developer of this product so I don't know for sure but I think that there will be updates to AT2 that also allow you to load up the individual fx and amps of the JH edition (if one buys the crossgrade if they own AT2) inside your AT2 system. So, really, it's the same thing as "buying additional effect and amp models" but it is ALSO it's own product (perhaps for other people who don't have a rig yet for example).

Anyway, you have some valid points. It should have some midi control and I think it was a case of shooting HIGH (and also thinking that the Stomp IO would come out sooner). By the way, while the Stomp IO has proprietary control (deep level- deeper than midi) for AT2 I believe it will also be able to control other midi devices as well... so you can take 6 expression pedals and control say GR2 and other things with it. Don't hold me to that but I think so!!! It's pretty cool. Also the audio input is similar to the quality of a ProTools HD system (which I have and I have compared). I had a prototype which I had to give back but I am anxious to get a production unit... it could very well be a really nice foot controller for a lot of things.

some impressions from Musikmesse 2007