Hello fellow KVRians!
I'm sure this question gets asked occasionally (I've tried searching but not really come up with exactly what I'm looking for).
I'm hoping to switch to using a laptop totally, from my PC. This means I will not be able to use my trusty Delta44 any longer.
I need a USB audio interface. Here are my requirements and preferences:
- (req.) Supports 96khz/24-bit playback/recording
- (req.) Supports ASIO and DirectX (does WDM include DirectX support? This is unclear to me.)
- (pref.) Bus powered (even if it requires two USB connections, that's fine)
- (pref.) Allows 96khz/24-bit playback and recording at the same time
I so far have liked M-Audio products, but all their USB devices seem to operate on the USB 1.1 specs. I don't know why this is, but it means that there are limitations. I was looking originally at the Audiophile USB (which cannot be bus powered) or the FastTrack Pro, which can only operate at 96khz/24-bit with either two inputs OR outputs. I only need one stereo pair for either input or output, but I'd really like them to operate at the same time. It was also unclear to me whether or not the FastTrack supported DirectX; if WDM includes this, then yes it does, otherwise it does not and I need that support. It was also useful to have the option for phantom power for microphones, just in case I need it later, so I would not necessarily have to purchase a seperate preamp or something (I don't know that much about recording so I might've said something dumb there).
While I love M-Audio products, I wondered what other products were available, that perhaps utilised the bandwidth available in USB 2.0 ports to get around the limitations of either 2 input or 2 output. But because I only really know M-Audio, I'm not really sure where to even start looking for different brands and models!
Can anyone suggest something they use, or have read about or heard about, that they can recommend? I don't mind if it's USB 1.1 or 2.0, as long as it fits in well with my needs, and naturally the less problems customers have had with it, the better! (i.e. solid drivers, good performance, long-term stability, etc.)
I did notice the EMU 0404, but I don't know if it's good or not... In regards to stability, drivers, performance. And I haven't read many reviews for EMU's hardware either.
I wish M-Audio had updated their products to take advantage of USB 2.0 bandwidth!
And Firewire is not an option; my one port is not 6-pin, it is 4-pin (so cannot power devices) and my chipset I have read have had many problems with Firewire (probably USB as well, but more so Firewire), including add-in cards (express slots), so I need a USB solution, and that allows me to swap between systems much more easily if I need to anyway.
I can deal with it not being bus powered as long as I can somehow rig a solar panel to power it, if anyone has suggestions in regards to that. :D
I will appreciate any help anyone can give!
USB Audio interface suggestions?
-
- KVRAF
- 16861 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
Some USB2 interfaces with mic preamps:
http://www.recordingreview.com/soundcar ... bmit+Query
I don't know why you need 96kHz recording and playback, since 44 or 48kHz is sufficient for most applications. You'll only be able to hear up to around 18kHz... Although the ability to perform at 96kHz often seperates the boys from the men.
I think that the M-Audio cards use USB1 because it offers sufficient bandwidth.
If your card supports WDM and MME driver models, that that's sufficient. I think that DirX / DirectSound is a layer of DirX itself, that depends on WDM. No seperate driver required. I don't have it, never missed it. All my applications work with WDM, MME or ASIO.
Considering phantom power: most USB interfaces only offer this at a very low voltage when bus-powered. Real phantom power is 48V, and that's rather hard to get when only 5V is fed through the USB bus.
You say that not being bus-powered is no issue, but at the same time you've discarded all FireWire cards because of your 4-pin connection. That's a bit of a contradiction...
It may seem "sexy" to be able to produce music anywhere with your notebook and bus-powered interface, but in practice most batteries can't support you any longer than two hours. After a year that may be reduced to only one hour battery life.
So why not use the notebook's built-in soundcard on the road / in the forest, and the proper interface whenever there's main power available? You'll find main power everywhere except in trains / planes / automobiles, etc...
And you'd require some form of power for your monitoring speakers anyway, unless you'll do everything with headphones. Read some threads about that here: don't ever solely rely on them!
http://www.recordingreview.com/soundcar ... bmit+Query
I don't know why you need 96kHz recording and playback, since 44 or 48kHz is sufficient for most applications. You'll only be able to hear up to around 18kHz... Although the ability to perform at 96kHz often seperates the boys from the men.
I think that the M-Audio cards use USB1 because it offers sufficient bandwidth.
If your card supports WDM and MME driver models, that that's sufficient. I think that DirX / DirectSound is a layer of DirX itself, that depends on WDM. No seperate driver required. I don't have it, never missed it. All my applications work with WDM, MME or ASIO.
Considering phantom power: most USB interfaces only offer this at a very low voltage when bus-powered. Real phantom power is 48V, and that's rather hard to get when only 5V is fed through the USB bus.
You say that not being bus-powered is no issue, but at the same time you've discarded all FireWire cards because of your 4-pin connection. That's a bit of a contradiction...
It may seem "sexy" to be able to produce music anywhere with your notebook and bus-powered interface, but in practice most batteries can't support you any longer than two hours. After a year that may be reduced to only one hour battery life.
So why not use the notebook's built-in soundcard on the road / in the forest, and the proper interface whenever there's main power available? You'll find main power everywhere except in trains / planes / automobiles, etc...
And you'd require some form of power for your monitoring speakers anyway, unless you'll do everything with headphones. Read some threads about that here: don't ever solely rely on them!
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. 
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
-
- KVRian
- 1107 posts since 31 Oct, 2002 from the high desert
How bout the Echo Indigo I/O? Its a PCMCIA card, and will give you better performance than any USB interface...
-
- KVRist
- 80 posts since 25 Apr, 2006
Yeah, PCMCIA is great. I'm gonna get one of those slots for my desktop so I can reuse my laptop cards . . . chuckle.
soundcloud.com/jeffreycreel
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1601 posts since 24 Jun, 2004 from Australia
You raise a few good points.
Need for 96khz: I want the ability. I mix at this level, even if I cut down later. Some really gay VSTs I use also sound better at this sampling rate, presumably they don't oversample internally or something. You're right about not hearing a difference; I can hear a difference between 44.1 and 48, but .. I *might* be able to in some circumstances 88.2 and above, but I think that's not me, but rather the particular VST I might be using. Nevertheless, I've always been a fan of having high quality "masters" so that I have more quality if ever I need it (comes from having done a small amount of graphics too; having made wallpapers and then buying a new monitor and "oh! now I have to remake that wallpaper DAMN".).
I need DirectX because my laptop isn't solely an audio device; it's a general PC so I play games on it etc. Sure I could use the inbuilt sound card, but I really don't like it... And it's easier to just rely on one all the time. ASIO4ALL also has a large latency with it (no matter how low I set it) and not only that, a strange low-level (but easily audible) buzzing occurs when using it as well. In short; I don't like the onboard, so if I don't need it, so much the better. I use my Delta44 all the time for games as well, when I used this PC for games (my laptop is better for it :P).
I know USB only supplies 5V, which is why I found some claims of 48v phantom power in some interfaces interesting, and confusing... But having that sort of feature would still be cool. It might just be enough for any amateur thing I do with recording.
I didn't say not being bus powered is no issue, I said I'd rather it WAS bus powered. I said I suppose I could do without it, but I have a very strong inclination to want a bus powered solution. Why do I want it mobile? Because I want to be able to record while away from main power. Playback, as you say, could be through the onboard sound. I'd rather not, but if I have to... But I am so not recording through that cheap thing. :D
I know about battery lives, and my 9-cell battery does only last probably 3 hours if used in really saving mode etc., with screen dim and wireless disabled and no usb devices etc. But I bought two 9-cell batteries, and I have been wanting to look up solar powering things anyway. It may never happen, but I am thinking about it nonetheless; bus powering also means I don't need multiple power plugs etc., I can just focus on powering the laptop and it's all good.
As for monitors, I don't have any. I have computer speakers and a couple of different ranged headphones. I have a cheap/midrange set of computer speakers and an expensive set, but they're still computer speakers. Haven't quite moved to the stage of monitors yet... Any mixing I do will definitely be at home though, so I don't need good quality; headphones are fine "on the field", I think.
Thanks for your response and suggestions, I hope I have been able to clear some stuff up for anyone else who reads this thread!
Need for 96khz: I want the ability. I mix at this level, even if I cut down later. Some really gay VSTs I use also sound better at this sampling rate, presumably they don't oversample internally or something. You're right about not hearing a difference; I can hear a difference between 44.1 and 48, but .. I *might* be able to in some circumstances 88.2 and above, but I think that's not me, but rather the particular VST I might be using. Nevertheless, I've always been a fan of having high quality "masters" so that I have more quality if ever I need it (comes from having done a small amount of graphics too; having made wallpapers and then buying a new monitor and "oh! now I have to remake that wallpaper DAMN".).
I need DirectX because my laptop isn't solely an audio device; it's a general PC so I play games on it etc. Sure I could use the inbuilt sound card, but I really don't like it... And it's easier to just rely on one all the time. ASIO4ALL also has a large latency with it (no matter how low I set it) and not only that, a strange low-level (but easily audible) buzzing occurs when using it as well. In short; I don't like the onboard, so if I don't need it, so much the better. I use my Delta44 all the time for games as well, when I used this PC for games (my laptop is better for it :P).
I know USB only supplies 5V, which is why I found some claims of 48v phantom power in some interfaces interesting, and confusing... But having that sort of feature would still be cool. It might just be enough for any amateur thing I do with recording.
I didn't say not being bus powered is no issue, I said I'd rather it WAS bus powered. I said I suppose I could do without it, but I have a very strong inclination to want a bus powered solution. Why do I want it mobile? Because I want to be able to record while away from main power. Playback, as you say, could be through the onboard sound. I'd rather not, but if I have to... But I am so not recording through that cheap thing. :D
I know about battery lives, and my 9-cell battery does only last probably 3 hours if used in really saving mode etc., with screen dim and wireless disabled and no usb devices etc. But I bought two 9-cell batteries, and I have been wanting to look up solar powering things anyway. It may never happen, but I am thinking about it nonetheless; bus powering also means I don't need multiple power plugs etc., I can just focus on powering the laptop and it's all good.
As for monitors, I don't have any. I have computer speakers and a couple of different ranged headphones. I have a cheap/midrange set of computer speakers and an expensive set, but they're still computer speakers. Haven't quite moved to the stage of monitors yet... Any mixing I do will definitely be at home though, so I don't need good quality; headphones are fine "on the field", I think.
Thanks for your response and suggestions, I hope I have been able to clear some stuff up for anyone else who reads this thread!
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1601 posts since 24 Jun, 2004 from Australia
And as a response to PCMCIA, I cannot; I only have an expresscard slot, no PCMCIA, but having the ability to plug the device anywhere there's a USB port is certainly an advantage I wouldn't mind keeping anyway. My Delta44 is limiting me for this very reason, since I need to plug it into a PCI slot. :)
-
- Banned
- 487 posts since 14 Nov, 2006
USB 1.1 is not capable of 2 way 96k, the bandwidth isn't there. Plus the latency will be massive.
USB2.0 does not have the sustained throughput of FW, which is why FW is the predominant format.
You can get a FW card that is 6 pin for one pretty cheap. You'll get far greater performance and open up a multitude of options this way.
I highly recommend the Presonus Firebox. 6 in(2 w/pres, 2 line, 2 spdif) and 8 out(6 analog 2 spdif), 96k capable (altough I recommend 88.2, the downsample will sound better) and buss powered. Very well built chassis, nice sounding pres, I'm very happy with mine.
USB2.0 does not have the sustained throughput of FW, which is why FW is the predominant format.
You can get a FW card that is 6 pin for one pretty cheap. You'll get far greater performance and open up a multitude of options this way.
I highly recommend the Presonus Firebox. 6 in(2 w/pres, 2 line, 2 spdif) and 8 out(6 analog 2 spdif), 96k capable (altough I recommend 88.2, the downsample will sound better) and buss powered. Very well built chassis, nice sounding pres, I'm very happy with mine.
-
- KVRian
- 1107 posts since 31 Oct, 2002 from the high desert
+1 to the Firebox recommendation.
I pretty much retired my Indigo after getting one...
I pretty much retired my Indigo after getting one...
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1601 posts since 24 Jun, 2004 from Australia
Even though USB 2.0 has more bandwidth (at least in theory, but I think it does in practice as well), I would probably prefer a Firewire solution.
But I really cannot use Firewire. I've read far too many problems with it and my chipset (I have a Dell Inspiron 9400, which has .. er .. argh I can't remember the chipset, but it's a Core 2 Duo, so whichever Intel chipset currently supports that and is released with Dell's laptops).
I will not risk using Firewire.
I am confident that a good quality USB product will be just that; good quality. Plus, I may want to swap between machines, which may or may not have Firewire (let's face it; USB, for better or worse, is a far more widespread standard).
Actually, I avoided looking at Tascam anything as I only really knew them for DAT-related things, and they always seemed like a company that sold expensive things... But the US-144 looks pretty good, I'm very tempted by it... Will have to search for reviews online for it, but it seems to do everything I want it to (as long as the WDM supports DirectSound, but I think it does).
Does anyone here use a Tascam US-144, and have comments about it? Is it as sturdy as it looks, or is it just looks? I'll search the forum later when I have time as well, for comments about this product.
Thank you everyone for your input so far, I hope to find the "perfect" (no such thing! :P) solution and I'll post pics of my hot setup later!
.. I was kidding about that last part, hehhehe.
But I really cannot use Firewire. I've read far too many problems with it and my chipset (I have a Dell Inspiron 9400, which has .. er .. argh I can't remember the chipset, but it's a Core 2 Duo, so whichever Intel chipset currently supports that and is released with Dell's laptops).
I will not risk using Firewire.
I am confident that a good quality USB product will be just that; good quality. Plus, I may want to swap between machines, which may or may not have Firewire (let's face it; USB, for better or worse, is a far more widespread standard).
Actually, I avoided looking at Tascam anything as I only really knew them for DAT-related things, and they always seemed like a company that sold expensive things... But the US-144 looks pretty good, I'm very tempted by it... Will have to search for reviews online for it, but it seems to do everything I want it to (as long as the WDM supports DirectSound, but I think it does).
Does anyone here use a Tascam US-144, and have comments about it? Is it as sturdy as it looks, or is it just looks? I'll search the forum later when I have time as well, for comments about this product.
Thank you everyone for your input so far, I hope to find the "perfect" (no such thing! :P) solution and I'll post pics of my hot setup later!
.. I was kidding about that last part, hehhehe.
-
- Banned
- 487 posts since 14 Nov, 2006
Firewire has been a standard protocol for some time, you should have no problems. Also it is the standard protocol for audio, and you'll find little otions in the USB2.0 protocol, which cannot sustain the throughput of FW, which is why FW is the accepted standard for external audio. USB1.1 is nto at all sufficient, has massive latency issues, and the limited bandwidth does not allow for proper phantom power to be supplied or for higher sample rates.
Trust us, FW is the way to go.
Trust us, FW is the way to go.