More question about notating for guitar, online tuts?

[bullshark]

I'm blessed with friendship with a very imaginative and talented guitar player/singer who, unfortunately, has zero knowledge about music theory (he didn't even knew chords were made of 3 notes, to him chords were things you play on guitar...), and I have to write down and add other instrument (mostly bass and drums, but others also) and arrange what he come up with.

Both a blessing and a curse, I'm sometime totally lost trying to notate what he come up with. Is there a quick crash course online, with sound example preferably, for doing that? I mean, a chord is a chord, but to him a chord is never a simple tzing thing.

Thanks.

[JumpingJackFlash]

I'm blessed with friendship with a very imaginative and talented guitar player/singer who, unfortunately, has zero knowledge about music theory (he didn't even knew chords were made of 3 notes, to him chords were things you play on guitar...), and I have to write down and add other instrument (mostly bass and drums, but others also) and arrange what he come up with.

Both a blessing and a curse, I'm sometime totally lost trying to notate what he come up with. Is there a quick crash course online, with sound example preferably, for doing that? I mean, a chord is a chord, but to him a chord is never a simple tzing thing.

Thanks.

My Introduction to Music Theory may be of use.
(Along with the FAQ's)

A chord can be any combination of notes sounded together. Many (most?) people agree that there must be at least three different notes involved.

A triad is the basic 3-note chord which you are probably thinking of (1st, 3rd and 5th). There are major, minor, diminished and augmented triads. - More information can be found in the above link.

[bullshark]

My Introduction to Music Theory may be of use.
(Along with the FAQ's)

A chord can be any combination of notes sounded together. Many (most?) people agree that there must be at least three different notes involved.

A triad is the basic 3-note chord which you are probably thinking of (1st, 3rd and 5th). There are major, minor, diminished and augmented triads. - More information can be found in the above link.

Thank's, but not what I meant (altough it will get usefull in time). I'll try to explain what I need to know: here's a snippet I recorded quick and dirty so we wouldn't loose the basic idea, the guitarist is fingering a "B" chord at the beginning (right at the beginning, it get's lost after due to bad recording), but he does so much stuff with his right hand that it sounds anything but. I'm supposed to notate that and I'm lost; just notating a "B" won't cut it. Some of those thing are called hammer-on, pull-off and stuff, that's what I need to learn but I don't know where to start or where to look for the info I need.

[BosseJo]

There's no way you can transcribe anything with 100% accuracy really. It's always an approximation. Two people can come up with two different, but equally good transcriptions.

You are probably looking for things like ornamentation, articulation and expressions (and possibly dynamics).

Pull-offs could be notated as slurs for example, harmonics are notated as diamond shaped notes. Do a search with those words in bold. There must be hundreds of pages explaining this.

The guitar is moving between minor and major so to just write B would probably not give the music justice. You could possibly see it as a B7#9 chord but I don't think it really sounds like that since it's "moving" (there's line going D#-D-F# on the guitar and the bass is playing B-D) but that's not what you're asking about is it?

[bullshark]

but that's not what you're asking about is it?

Frankly, I don't really know what I'm asking anymore. Have you ever got the feeling that the more you try at something, the more you're sinking in failure? It's a sickening feeling, believe me. I spent all day looking on the net, reading here and googling and books and calling friends and... I'm lost. I can't write it. Oh, I can write the bass part allright since I'm the one who came up with the bassline and playing it, I can write the melody with little effort, but the guitar part to this? I don't even know where to start. I'm not a notating hero, but I'm not exactly green either; so it appears I've met my match...

[BosseJo]

Who are you transcribing for? Yourself or bandmates or are there other reasons? A very detailed notation is not that easy to do, it can often defeat the purpose. You have to find a balance between readability and exactness.

[bullshark]

For bandmates (if we can call a loose assortement of hobbyist musicians playing assorted instruments with assorted abilities and limited free time a "band"...) and myself; I got to structure and make complete songs out of what is more than loose jamming but not songs yet. I got it done before, but this one (and one other) got me scratching my head and despair. "la nuit porte conseil" we say here, hope this one's fruitfull.

Thanks.

[BosseJo]

So perhaps then the exact guitar part is not that important? I mean, isn't the B chord and the D#-D-F# melody what's important (and the bassline)? If the reason for notating is that your bandmates should grasp the musical idea, then that would be sufficient, wouldn't it? And use whatever it takes to get the music across. If you feel it would clearify things, add "normal" english/french or anything you feel would help. It's your transcription after all and as long you are not going to publish it, conveying the music to your band is what's important.

And when you have had a couple of hits you can hire a professional transcriber and let he deal with it

[MoreDread]

Erm, what about guitar tablature?
(Just look at his fingers?)

[BosseJo]

Erm, what about guitar tablature?
(Just look at his fingers?)

Could be a solution but the keyboard player or any other non guitarists will probably be a bit confused

[bullshark]

I ended up breaking it down; the first guitarist already knows what to play, the key/backup vocal only need a sheet with basic chords structure, lyrics and an audio file and she'll know what to do, the fiddle player can't read worth a damn anyway so we'll just tell him when it's time for him to play and hopefully he'll do something not too out-of-tune; only problem is the secong guitar player: he can play anything on time and with great tone...as long as everything is written down on to the last note, never seen a guitar player so technically proficient but so unimaginative at the same time (god I hope he's not reading KVR...), I'll deal with his part later (now, where's the rug...).

Erm, what about guitar tablature?
(Just look at his fingers?)

Normally what I do, notes position on the bass and guitar is the same, just those extra 2 strings I have to look up, but this part gives me headaches just thinking about tabbing it.

[wrench45us]

invest in a midi guitar
with a notation application to render ?

[bullshark]

The guitar is moving between minor and major so to just write B would probably not give the music justice. You could possibly see it as a B7#9 chord but I don't think it really sounds like that since it's "moving" (there's line going D#-D-F# on the guitar and the bass is playing B-D) but that's not what you're asking about is it?

Anybody ever told you you have golden ears Bossejo? To find this with the crappy recording I presented is nothing short of spectacular, and it's not the first time you do this. Thumbs up.

In that line, he's in fact alternating between B7 and Bm7, punching the D then D# then F# and then go on to B/A all mostly with his picking hand while his fretting hand is not moving much. Made more difficult to catch because, all the while, his picking hand is moving between bridge and neck to get the tone he wants. But now, I've got a basic chord structure and I developped a technique to catch what he's playing on the fly (I'm not blessed with golden ears, mine gets easily overwhelmed).

[BosseJo]

The guitar is moving between minor and major so to just write B would probably not give the music justice. You could possibly see it as a B7#9 chord but I don't think it really sounds like that since it's "moving" (there's line going D#-D-F# on the guitar and the bass is playing B-D) but that's not what you're asking about is it?

Anybody ever told you you have golden ears Bossejo? To find this with the crappy recording I presented is nothing short of spectacular, and it's not the first time you do this. Thumbs up.

In that line, he's in fact alternating between B7 and Bm7, punching the D then D# then F# and then go on to B/A all mostly with his picking hand while his fretting hand is not moving much. Made more difficult to catch because, all the while, his picking hand is moving between bridge and neck to get the tone he wants. But now, I've got a basic chord structure and I developped a technique to catch what he's playing on the fly (I'm not blessed with golden ears, mine gets easily overwhelmed).

Well, thank you. I think a lot of others here could have done that too. I believe your singer also has very good ears, you can hear that he has good intonation, pitch confidence and he rarely "fishes" for the notes if you know what I mean. It would be fun to hear the final song.

I believe (as I have written here a couple of times) that ear training is the most important thing if you want to develop as a musician and I think anyone can achieve a very high awareness of relative pitch (and also of rhythm, you don't want to forget that). Here's a link to very good free program for ear training (you want the basic version, the advanced is not more advanced really and I don't think it adds anything useful):
http://home.scarlet.be/~abenbass/fet.html#fetbasic

I someone wants me to give a few pointers to get you started just say so.

I'm glad you found to way to notate your music!

[ahjteam]

Erm, what about guitar tablature?
(Just look at his fingers?)

Could be a solution but the keyboard player or any other non guitarists will probably be a bit confused

Theres always PowerTab. Its free and pretty easy to use. Theres Guitar Pro too, but its $59