KVR Audio

ListenToRick · Post by **ListenToRick** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:53 pm

Hi guys,

I'm trying to record guitars using my PODXT and a Saffire LE with Cubase.

I want to recreate the 'wall of guitars' sound that most rock bands have used, often when playing power chords.

My recordings always sound very thin.

Any suggestions?

Also, with Cubase, if i record a mono input - i.e. a bass guitar, how can I centralise the input so that the sound becomes stereo?

Cheers for the advice

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:26 pm

Best suggestion: record the part two or three (or more) times, and pan them each differently: one left, one right, one in the middle. (that's also the way to create the stereo image)

Dominus · Post by **Dominus** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:33 pm

Record stereo out from the PODXT into the Saffire LE into two tracks in Cubase, and pan one left and one right. Put a slight delay on one of the tracks.

Waker · Post by **Waker** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:35 pm

Do what Bert suggest, but also watch out how much gain you use... To really fatten the track, Triple track like Bert says, and the triple track with a almost clean sound as well. For instance Triple track with a Dual Rectifier for the two sides, and som thing different for the center (Marshalsque or spinal puppet for instance), and then Triple track the same bit with a DC30 for the sides and something that compliments you center amp....

...And think about the Bas/Guitar relationship. If the bas is basicly double the guitar an octave lower, then work with that sound as well, instead of trying to built the guitar tone on top of the bas sound, then think these tracks as parts of the same instruments....

ListenToRick · Post by **ListenToRick** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:01 pm

Cheers for the suggestions. This seems to be the first music community I've found where people actually help each other! Nice one.

Waker - where do I find the Dual Rectifier?

Is the DC30 one of the amps modelled by the PODXT?

Waker · Post by **Waker** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:13 pm

Mesa/Boogie® 2001 Dual Rectifier®

Matchless 1993 DC-30

Both listed as models in the POD XT : http://www.line6.com/podxt/amps.html

I can't remember the L6 names.... But I know their position in the Vetta dial...

Edit:

I found the vetta names:
'01 California Treadplate
'93 Match D-30

Another great combination is to use the Dual Rec as the low gain amp, and pulling some highs, and then layer it with Screaming amp like the bogners XTC or Spinal Puppet (love that name).

ListenToRick · Post by **ListenToRick** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:37 pm

So to confirm:

For instance Triple track with a Dual Rectifier for the two sides (which gives left & right)

- will the the left and right channels sound different?
- triple track just means recording the same part three times on different channels right?

and somthing different for the center (Marshalsque or spinal puppet for instance)

- I assume Marshalsque is a modelled Marshall amp?
- to center something do I just set equal left and right speaker volumes???

and then Triple track the same bit with a DC30 for the sides and something that compliments you center amp....

- add another three tracks of DC30???

So in total we have 7 channels just for the guitar??

I'm probably being VERY dumb

Hovmod · Post by **Hovmod** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:57 pm

Try that too!
Test these things out for yourself, don't be happy with the suggestions. For instance, some people are quite happy using copies of the track and just delaying one or otherwise treating it differently, others (me included) prefer actually recording the same parts many times.
To get that super dense thick sound you have to be less sloppy than me, though - I tend to get a wall of shite (thanks, Donkey, for that awesome description) because of my lack of precision and can't-be-botheredness. Works for me, I'm not trying to be Tool.

jupiter8 · Post by **jupiter8** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:00 pm

Begin with double tracking. IE record the same part twice. That means PLAY it twice,no delay trickery,it's not the same thing!

Begin with the same sound on both channels.Pan one hard left and one hard right. The difference is simply stunning compared to a single take.Night and day.

After that,experiment! Try one sound to the left and another to the right. Do another take and pan that in the middle (triple track). Don't pan hard right/left but narrower. Try everything panned dead center.
Basically go crazy and try and see for yourself what you like. Def Leppard had like 64 channels of guitar at the same time,just so you know!

EDIT: try 2 really "meaty" sounds panned left/right and one really nasty thin distorded dead center. Mix to taste.Works magic sometimes. Expirment with different ampmodels,eqs (don't be afraid of extreme settings on one of the sounds),panning etc.

Waker · Post by **Waker** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:01 pm

The idea is that you if you double track or triple track, then you will get tiny bits of "humanization", instead of recording a stereo track. This will sound "bigger", if you know how to play it right

There is a lot of variantion on the Marshall amp sound. It really depends on the context. It doesn't have to be a marshall, but someting different than what you used on the two sides track, again to get a different sound. The center track is difficult btw... Because IF you use it, then try to get a sound which will blend nicely with vocals, snare, bass and kick...Pretty hard, and takes a lot of experiments.

Just two version of the DC30

so in totalt...6 tracks. This is not so much... I do this time 4 for each track... DI, Vetta DI, SM57 and e906.....Route all of this to a stereo bus, and do most of your EQ and Comp there. The center guitar sounds will need some more intense tweaking than the sides.

Some kind of limiter on the guitar buss will also bring it more in you face, if (ab)used right.

Waker · Post by **Waker** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:06 pm

...BTW, orchestration is 80% of getting that wall of sound feel. If you have a tiny sound in the verse, and then go full throttle in the chorus, you will get that wall of sound hitting you. If you go on and on with a loud guitar sound, then you (and your audience) will get tired, and it will not be percived as a wall of sound, but more as annoying...

ListenToRick · Post by **ListenToRick** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:07 pm

Stereo bus - is this something I can do in Cakewalk?

Do any of you guys have any examples of your work I can listen to?

By the way, in CakeWalk how do I get all of My Saffire LE line ins to be available in a channels input dropdown?

I have 6 inputs, but it only gives me a single input in the drop down for a particular channel!!

As you guys can tell, I'm a real newbie

Waker · Post by **Waker** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:17 pm

...Cakewalk??? as in Sonar?

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:20 pm

The best suggestions have already been made. Doubling, tripling and quadrupling (or whatever) is the way to go. All that along with playing accuracy.
Personally, I prefer having the more distorted tracks panned and one less distorted one centered (or almost centered). That way, defenition usually is preserved.

Oh well, a last thing: Sometimes just changing guitars but keeping the same amp model is doing wonders. Almost all guitars have different sweet spots in the frequency range, and you may want to cover them all (at least for a start).

ListenToRick · Post by **ListenToRick** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:38 pm

I meant Cubase

Wall of Guitars and PODXT