XT Software

flippya2000 · Post by **flippya2000** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:23 pm

Hi every1,

1st of all I'm not sure if this is a problem with:-

1. eXTv1.4b(24sept2006)
2. my keyboard controller (Evolution MK449) UPDATE: Ruled out - see post below
3. a vst effect (Lucifer-v2.1.1b3) UPDATE: Ruled out - see post below

& was wondering whether anyone could help me narrow it down/find a solution to the problem. Here's my setup:-

1. Controller connected via usb2 to the motherboard
2. eXT standalone containing just one Sequencer, with this sequencer containing just one midi track, this midi track contains energyXTE vst. (Inside eXT Standalone the connections are such that: midi & audio is connected to the Sequencer from Master In; & the Sequencer is passing audio to Master Out)
3. Inside energyXTE vst I have a sequencer containing 2 midi tracks - one for drums (dk+) - one for a layer of 3 synths. These 3 synths & dk+ are all on XTE's main page (ie not contained within the sequencer's midi tracks), with midi-out1 connected to the 3 synths, & midi-out2 connected to dk+. The outputs of the synths & drums are routed to the audio input of Lucifer vst effect, with the audio out from Lucifer going to a Limiter before finally reaching Master Out. Lucifer is connected to accept the input of my controller by connecting the Midi-out from Master In to Lucifer's midi in. (Inside XTE main window the connections are such that: midi & audio is connected to the Sequencer from Master In)

Phew, now I've explained that, here's my problem - While controlling Lucifer with my controller, after an apparently random amount of time (I can't say exactly, sometimes it's a minute, sometimes it's longer than 15 minutes) black notes get stuck & controller knobs start moving when they shouldn't (on Lucifer's GUI not my controller).

I put MidiMungRack inbetween the midi-out of from Master In and Lucifer's midi in to see what was going on, & found that the order of note-ons & note-off msgs were reversed - causing the stuck notes. Also, wrong controller msgs were being sent eg, knob at full left/0 position might say 39 & control 2 parameters instead of one (ie midi conflict). It sounds to me like midi interference, from Master In to Lucifer, but I have no idea how/why this is happening, since Lucifer is only receiving one midi input from Master In. NB, this problem never occurs when I use Trollo vst (which doesn't need any midi input from Master In)

I have emailed Devine Machine about this too, but was hoping some1 on this forum could give me some suggestions (especially those who use Lucifer inside XTE) - I really can't think of anything else to try. Thanks for reading, any suggestion to solve this problem will be greatly appreciated..

flippya2000 · Post by **flippya2000** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:26 pm

I thought the problem was fixed (just my PC playing up for a day), but then it happened again today. I have been able to rule out Lucifer VST as being the problem as the midi interference I described happened with another synth I own. Also, I believe I have ruled out my midi controllers being the problem as I tried them in another host (FLStudio7) & there were no midi interference issues there (I made the project from scratch in FLS7 & assigned the same CCs as in eXT)

So here's an update of the problem:-
When using controllers (Evolution MK449, Evolution X-Session) with energyXTE to control a VST, I get midi interference. An example of what happens - I assign knob-A=cc70; & knob-B=cc71, when I turn knob-A cc70 AND cc71 is outputted & the data values are incorrect (confirmed with MidiMungRack, although the synth GUI shows the problem too). The same happens when I twist knob-B. This doesn't always happen straight away (ie CC values are correct for a while), sometimes it happens after a few minutes of turning the knobs.

I'd really appreciate it if other energyXT users could test this issue I'm having as I think I have ruled out my controllers/VSTs - All you have to do is create an energyXT project that has 1 sequencer containing an instance of energyXTE; then in XTE have a midi part play a loop to synth & control the synths paramaters (eg filter cutoff & resonance/peak) with 2 knobs on your controller.

flippya2000 · Post by **flippya2000** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:04 pm

Looks like I'm the only person having this problem?!
Just rang MAudio (MAudio took over Evolution for those who don't know) uk support, & they said I should write an email after testing with Midi Ox. Ironically, when I sent them an email before, they asked me to ring them..

Still open to any suggestions about this, am I really the only one experiencing this problem..?

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:35 am

There are problems with MIDI sync in the Main window. I'd try moving everything inside sequencers and using eXT VSTi version instead of the fx version.

flippya2000 · Post by **flippya2000** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:19 pm

.jon wrote:There are problems with MIDI sync in the Main window. I'd try moving everything inside sequencers and using eXT VSTi version instead of the fx version.

Thanks for your reply .jon

been waiting for some1 to confirm/tell me what the problem was. Ironically, the reason I used the FX version is because I noticed midi-sync problems when just using standalone (but these were to do with note ons/offs). I like working in the main window as it allows me to see how everything is hooked up & a double click allows me to quickly edit a vst - Now I have to change all my templ8s/way of working..

Do you know if this problem is/will be fixed in eXT2? I really love energyXT & the idea of relearning another host scares me!

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:22 pm

I sure hope it'll be fixed. Major issue and affects hugely how the Main Window can be used. Same goes to external sync, currently hardware synths can't be used with eXT.

I believe there are 3 versions of eXT - the standalone, VSTi and VST(fx) versions. I don't know if it makes any difference to use the instrument version but maybe worth to try?

flippya2000 · Post by **flippya2000** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:44 pm

.jon wrote:I sure hope it'll be fixed. Major issue and affects hugely how the Main Window can be used. Same goes to external sync, currently hardware synths can't be used with eXT.

I believe there are 3 versions of eXT - the standalone, VSTi and VST(fx) versions. I don't know if it makes any difference to use the instrument version but maybe worth to try?

I hope its fixed too, as up until now, I kinda took it for granted that midi controllers are automatically synced to the host software. I don't have any hardware synth, but may do in the future, so agree that both sync methods should be fixed asap.

Re 3 diff versions of eXT - I didn't even know there were 3 versions! Up until now I've just been using Standalone & XTE(Effect). I went to - http://www.energy-xt.com/ & have downloaded all 3 versions..Strangely all of these seem to be different versions - Eg: Standalone says '1.4 beta 24-sept-2006'; XTE(Effect) says '1.4 - 11-feb-2006'; energyXT(Instrument) says '1.4.1 - 28-feb-2006'..Is this correct?

If the above is correct, I may have installed the latest version incorrectly, which might be another explanation to the problem I'm experiencing (hard to say, since .jon's the only one to have replied). I will test eXT some more this week & post back - Just tested now for about 10minutes with no problems, but as said earlier the problem doesn't always happen straight away, so can't make any conclusions yet..

flippya2000 · Post by **flippya2000** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:39 pm

UPDT: Tested both Effect version & Instrument version of eXT & unhappy to report that both have the midi interference problem (described abv) when using midi outs from a sequencer component to control a vsti - ie using eXT main window, as opposed to outputting from midi tracks within the sequencer. I can confirm that there is nothing wrong with my controller as I have run it with Midi-Ox. Also, the vsti works fine in another host with the same controller.

I haven't tested eXT by adding vstis to the sequencer's midi tracks, as I never work this way, and can't think how to remake my project. I read in this forum that if midi problems happen, then you should right click in the eXT main window & click 'setup'->'apply' to reset the driver - I can't confirm if this works as I only just remembered now, but thought it might be useful to someone in the future.

I'm a bit annoyed that only 1 person has bothered to reply to this, as it seems to me to be a big issue, and wonder why Jorgen hasn't replied..?

I still really like eXT, but can't use it like I did b4

Michael Benjamin · Post by **Michael Benjamin** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:05 pm

got these problems too, first i thought my xboard was broken.

symptohms: midi note on/off reversed or completely messed, controller messages broken/altered

also if i send midi from another app to energy xt to play back with vstis the performance is quite choppy and timing is jittered.

would be glad if someone found a workaround for this.

greetings
michael

flippya2000 · Post by **flippya2000** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:16 pm

Michael Benjamin wrote:would be glad if someone found a workaround for this.

The only work around is to reset the soundcard (see my post above) - this will allow you to work in eXTs main window, but is not a v.good solution as midi CCs could get messed up almost immediately after reset. The only other way, which I haven't tested, but others have, which is sposed to be a complete workaround is to NOT work in eXT's main window, ie to run all VSTs out of the sequencer component & NOT use any midi-outs. As stated abv, this really limits how you can use eXT. Any other eXT users should feel welcome to comment on this fairly big issue..

Michael Benjamin · Post by **Michael Benjamin** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:10 pm

hmm, the soundcard reset doesnt work for me, only a relaunch of ext does it.
and to use all vst in the sequencer.. i probably wont do that since the main window signal flow possibilities is why i use ext at all...

i hope this is fixed in xt2

greetings
michael

flippya2000 · Post by **flippya2000** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:47 pm

Michael Benjamin wrote:and to use all vst in the sequencer.. i probably wont do that since the main window signal flow possibilities is why i use ext at all...

I feel ur pain, as this is how I work too

At the moment I'm using 2 other hosts, but I don't really like either of them & one isn't working properly on my desktop

Making music is hard enough as it is, without technical problems..

Michael Benjamin wrote:i hope this is fixed in xt2

Indeed, only time will tell..

Michael Benjamin · Post by **Michael Benjamin** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:08 pm

i had a look on xt2 beta from 13.04., and so far it seems its much more stable concerning midi timing. the generic look of current xt2 aside it seems to work in the main window like xt1.4, only things that are not there (yet i hope?) is midi cc assignement and patch randomisation.
also some of somas midi plugin did not work, such as channel filter or transposer, but midi munger did work.

Cygnus X-1 · Post by **Cygnus X-1** » Mon May 28, 2007 4:02 am

I am unhappy to report I am having this same problem with eXT 1.4.1 2/28/2006 standalone. The note on/off get switched. Restarting eXT gets rid of it.
My controller is an old SY-77 connected via MIDI to an M-audio 2496 audiophile PCI soundcard.
By the way, I never had this problem with the older 1.3 if this information is useful. I'll see if XT2 has it or not.

Cygnus X-1 · Post by **Cygnus X-1** » Wed May 30, 2007 3:46 pm

UPDATE: I have been using XT2 exclusively for the past couple of days and I don't think that it has this bug. Everything is fabulous. Of course some nice features are still missing (midi mapping for instance), but according to a recent post by Jorgen, hopefully it'll be available soon.

XT Software

KVR Audio

BR - Midi event handling of CCs UPDATED