KVR Audio

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:37 am

I, too am feeling like the hype is growing a bit over the edge for Poly-Ana. I do like it, but I find it CPU intensive to the point that I think being a bit more aggressively critical of the sound is warranted. For a frame of reference, here are some of the other softsynths I think are in the running either as "warmest" "phatest" or "most like a real instrument and not a cheap digital synth":

MiniMonsta
Imposcar
VAZ 2010 & Modular
Korg Legacy Analog
Arturia Prophet V & JP8V
Komplexor

If Poly-Ana had, say, 60% of the CPU drain that it has I would say only VAZ competes with it because VAZ has such restrained CPU usage, but Poly-Ana is only superceded by the JP8V (which is truly out of control) in the resource demands area, as far as I can tell. I'd say it's about even with MiniMonsta.

One handy thing I'd like to see, beyond any more optimization that is possible, is a unison detune control.

BTW, for all of you that hate the big routing knobs, just switch it to dropdown windows in the options menu and it cleans up the GUI immensely.

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:52 am

Frippertronix wrote:I, too am feeling like the hype is growing a bit over the edge for Poly-Ana. I do like it, but I find it CPU intensive to the point that I think being a bit more aggressively critical of the sound is warranted. For a frame of reference, here are some of the other softsynths I think are in the running either as "warmest" "phatest" or "most like a real instrument and not a cheap digital synth":

MiniMonsta
Imposcar
VAZ 2010 & Modular
Korg Legacy Analog
Arturia Prophet V & JP8V
Komplexor

If Poly-Ana had, say, 60% of the CPU drain that it has I would say only VAZ competes with it because VAZ has such restrained CPU usage, but Poly-Ana is only superceded by the JP8V (which is truly out of control) in the resource demands area, as far as I can tell. I'd say it's about even with MiniMonsta.

I'd agree with that benchmark. I'd also add that its better than most SE creations I've tried, but they're usually free so it's not a fair comparison.

One handy thing I'd like to see, beyond any more optimization that is possible, is a unison detune control.

You've got one. DETUNE. Right next to the Polyphony knob.

BTW, for all of you that hate the big routing knobs, just switch it to dropdown windows in the options menu and it cleans up the GUI immensely.

I keep pointing that out too. I need to publish more pics of the dropdowns. Here!

In defense of "hype". Hey, I like the sound. I definitely hear the difference from other softsynths -- and everybody always complains that so many products sound alike. Being different, providing an alternative, was intentional with Poly. Poly-Ana uses a completely different bandlimiting solution than 99% of other softsynths. Like it or not, this does account for a different flavour of sound from most of the rest of the crop. If you hear it, great! If you don't, don't worry about it... this stuff is ultimately subjective and you can't help but be right. You like what you like!

But MANY others do like the sound and send me "hype" that would make me blush if I said it myself. So all I ask is that you try her, that's why it's a fully functioning demo.

Cheers! (I'm playing with Urs' Zebra demo now. After a few minutes with it I'd say I don't consider Poly and Zebra to be in competition with each other. They're very different takes on synthesis, sound, and interface both very powerful in their own way. Anyway, still figuring it out... more later.)

novaflash · Post by **novaflash** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:15 am

too much CPU for my PC for live
frozen/need power switch-off, when changing presets sometime
(amd athlon 2200, xp pro, chainer)
i will waiting for a v1.x version

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:23 am

OK, after a bit more going through Zebra2's presets I'd say it and Poly-Ana are completely different products and probably best used for completely different types of music. I refuse to compare them, they're just too different with obviously different aims.

Like I mentioned above, I come from a (perhaps) old fashioned, hands-on keyboard player kind of background with synths. To me they're instruments first and if you want to sequence them after that, fine but that's out of scope of the instrument part of it (though note that Poly-Ana can be driven from 3 different MIDI tracks so one can control the keyboard while 2 other tracks of monophonic melody line sequences -- each on separate MIDI channel -- can control, for example, the filter cutoff(s). (See Poly's Options dialog to set up the channels.) So you can do all that sequencing-the filters stuff, modular synth sequencer style. I just didn't care to reinvent the sequencer or arpeggiator. Just as with effects, I'd suggest you use your favorite exsting ones or the features in your host. Obviously you choose a particular host because you like sequencing in it, so THAT'S Poly-Ana's sequencer!)

Going through the Zebra presets, I could only find a few that were playable and weren't trying to impose some preset sequence on me. Don't get me wrong, that's all fine, just not my personal thing. To me, Poly-Ana is for classic rock. (Though it can do a lot more... a good example is how marvotron really blew me away with his MDK presets. I had been so focused on trying to make her sound pretty that it never occurred to me Poly could also sound so dirty and gritty, and just so organically random. Those patches still scare me... especially "MDK Everybody's Dead"

I like to slump my head on the desk and swing my arm limply when I play that one.)

I'd say Zebra is a true modular and Poly-Ana is a highly-routable single architecture synth. Again, I was trying to make a big fat late 70s polysynth. An imaginary one that had the best of the best features and an atypically generous amount of Oscs, Filters, Envs and LFOs (at least compared to classic hardware synths of the period. In software of course we don't have to PAY to add more components, you just pay in CPU). But it's not meant to be as complex as a true modular. Its voice architecture is designed to feel like a familar pre-patched Moog / Oberheim / Roland / Whatever voice arch, but also have powerful modular-like modulation routing. (much like the Arp 2600 but with dials instead of messy patch cables.)

Anyway, back to playing with Zebra... I'm trying to just make a string pad!

advaya · Post by **advaya** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:51 am

AdmiralQuality wrote:Again, I was trying to make a big fat late 70s polysynth.

After noodling with the demo recently, I'd say you succeeded admirably with that endeavour. I cannot think of a VSTi that more closely resembles the nostalgic feel of the synths from that era.

I do agree with the non-CPU friendly nature of PolyAna at the moment, but hey... code gets optimised, and hardware gets more powerful. Seems inevitable that things will get better.

Nice work AQ.

SARcazm · Post by **SARcazm** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:55 am

From what I understood, Urs was not saying Zebra sounds like Poly-Ana, but rather had a stereo path.
Also, doesn't z3ta+ allow you to pan the filters and so the Osc's?

seldom · Post by **seldom** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:55 am

I would really love this synth if the interface was usable. Even with the mod source knobs changed to menus, the whole feel of it is very awkward to use; a great shame for me! It really does sound quite excellent. I love the envelopes, the way you can get it to click and squawk like a grimy old analogue.

Needs a small, flat, uncluttered GUI!

lsd · Post by **lsd** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:57 am

marvotron really blew me away with his MDK presets. I had been so focused on trying to make her sound pretty that it never occurred to me Poly could also sound so dirty and gritty, and just so organically random. Those patches still scare me... especially "MDK Everybody's Dead

I think the MDK patches make poly-ana truly shine. Is there a chance we will see any more from marvotron?

novaflash · Post by **novaflash** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:09 am

seldom wrote:Needs a small, flat, uncluttered GUI!

yes!

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:12 am

SARcazm wrote:From what I understood, Urs was not saying Zebra sounds like Poly-Ana, but rather had a stereo path.
Also, doesn't z3ta+ allow you to pan the filters and so the Osc's?

Absoultely. But with a true modular synth virtually anything is possible. So if I further qualify it to "synth of this type"... or something? Heh, "Admiral Qualify".

But all I meant was I personally didn't know of any other analog model softsynth that had it. Now I do, thanks!

Certainly none of the classics that inspired Poly had stereo signalpaths. It would have doubled the cost of most of those synths.

lsd wrote:I think the MDK patches make poly-ana truly shine. Is there a chance we will see any more from marvotron?

And yeah, I'd like marvotron to do a whole bank of 128 scary new sounds for us. Because aside from the player's synth I set out to make, Poly-Ana is great for sound effects too. Some very cinematic sci-fi kinda stuff. What can I trade you for it marvo? (Everybody bug marvotron!)

marvotron · Post by **marvotron** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:18 am

thanks, im glad you like them.

i might go and make some more now as i've got some ideas i want to try out.

i'll let you know when new ones are ready.

just to add to the current discussion, i think its one of the few softsynths that has character, both in its sound and UI. I dont find it hard to use at all, it took a few hours to get used to it but now I know where everything is then going from the idea in my head to creating the sound is very quick.

I think one of the best parts is that it has a unique (afaik) modulation setup which really encourages experimenting.

which is exactly what im going to do now.

less talk. more music.

marvotron · Post by **marvotron** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:20 am

heh, the only thing i need in exchange for more sounds is time. if you've got some spare i could really use it.

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:39 am

Thanks marvotron! And yeah, I don't have ANY problem with the GUI either. It's fast-fast-fast to me.

I think it needs a "reset current patch to default" feature, as well as the ability to define a new default sound, much like the MIDI maps work currently. Right now you'd have to load a default patch from a file if you want to start with a clean slate.

This is all looking like the first update in the 1.x series will actually be a major rev. Going straight from 1.00 to 1.10, cool!

lsd · Post by **lsd** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:50 am

I would love to see a random feature.

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:01 am

lsd wrote:I would love to see a random feature.

Buy Plogue Bidule!

Random isn't much good on Poly, you'll almost never get a playable sound, though it can be a good way to start a freaky sound effect.

And to add controls to constrain the randomness, well then you'd just get minor variations on the same pad sound. Wouldn't be very interesting.

Poly-Ana programming is best approached with intent and a plan. And again, I'm trying to recover the vintage vibe here. We didn't randomize patches in the 70s!

So, sorry lsd, but that one's unlikely.

Poly-Ana 1.0 New VA softsynth. 1 week full functioning demo