KVR Audio

mauseoleum · Post by **mauseoleum** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:07 pm

To shave some hair?

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:16 pm

I dunno...my mixes get pretty "hairy"...

Well, if this test is to demonstrate 32-bit gainstaging, then why put a limiter on it? What if it's not processing at 32-bits?

frequency_algorithm · Post by **frequency_algorithm** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:40 pm

jupiter8 wrote:
bduffy wrote:
jupiter8 wrote:The first post is the biggest load of bull i've seen in a long time even by KVR standards.
Really? You must've not read the "which host sums better: Cubase or Live?" thread!

Seriously, I don't think the guy's saying anything terribly controversial.

Knowing your gain staging and how digital works is a must on getting amazing sound from a computer
Is a must ? Yeah right. Far from it buddy.
nuking damned hyper fast transients.
Oh those. The hyper fast ones are a real bitch.
Never limit 'into' the wave
Or what ? God kills a kitten ?
but if it peaks at say -11.2 db, i set a hard limiter right @ -11.2 for synths. HUGE HUGE HUGE difference when mixing ITB.
If it peaks at -11.2 what good will a limiter set at -11.2 accomplish ? Nothing ?
when used gave a nice boost in ease of mixing and sound quality.
So easy to prove wrong i'm not even going to bother.

And it just goes on and on and on........

i love you man thank you jupiter 8. you say the things so we dont have to.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:44 pm

Indeed. You go, girl!

frequency_algorithm · Post by **frequency_algorithm** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:51 pm

aciddose wrote:jens, well yes. when i said "if you have to throw a limiter on everything" i was talking about the imagined need like you said. really the whole chain should have levels set to maintain -6 ... 0 in all places. limiters should never be used for the purpose of pushing the nominal signal levels higher than they can go.. this is simply removing all dynamics.

when i talk about -6db or -12db, i'm talking about nominal signal levels. you're not going to be losing any bits, they're part of your headroom. peaks end up in those bits. if you're mixing based upon peak signal levels what i'm saying doesnt make much sense. (although the thought of using peak levels to mix anything doesnt make sense to me either so we're even)

i never mentioned about integer anything. i was only explaining about the difference between int and float, where with float you do not have to pay as much attention to headroom since you have so much available. i wasnt talking about int vs. float anything. i was making a reference to the different states of mind when using the two formats. if you mix in floating point, you need to force yourself to treat headroom the same way you would as if you were using integer. it'll produce better results if you're more mindful of anything, especially headroom.

it would be nice to have an integer spec.. but this will have to wait for adoption of 64 bit systems since 32 bits is really just not enough for linear ints in audio. having an integer spec would FORCE you to be aware, and in my opinion integer dsp code is generally better than float dsp code (for various reasons) and this would lead to a higher average quality of software, too. that is just something for the future though, it isnt worth arguing the merits at this point since there currently are not many.

I'm not reading anything this guy writes until he posts his mixes. This guy is seriously full of shit. Is this what they call a forum liar? Please dude, post your mixes so we can hear what you are talking about. I'll play them back on my system and we'll find out the truth.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:53 pm

Who? Aciddose??

frequency_algorithm · Post by **frequency_algorithm** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:06 pm

i don't even know. i hear a lot about this mathematical computer know-how when it comes to mixing, but for me, i can't "read" about someone's mixing and understand what they are talking about. Please, if you are going to go on about musical benefits of intergers and floating point assholes, then please post your mixes so we can tell whether we should give a flying f**k about your post. That way we can waste less time reading crap on this forum and spend more time on hearing the proof of the pudding. Aren't we all musicians? Let's hear the mix!

jackson · Post by **jackson** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:10 pm

frequency_algorithm wrote:I'm not reading anything this guy writes until he posts his mixes. This guy is seriously full of shit. Is this what they call a forum liar? Please dude, post your mixes so we can hear what you are talking about. I'll play them back on my system and we'll find out the truth.

Aciddose knows what he's talking about. Do you?

spuddle · Post by **spuddle** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:17 pm

Funny, I realised this myself the other day, and now to read some incredibly elaborate posts on the topic, my ponderation is founded.

Going to start 'low' mixing today

p.s. mr. frequency_algorithm is playing with fire.

sc_a · Post by **sc_a** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:32 pm

Mister Algorithim Seriously Mixed!

chilln · Post by **chilln** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:42 pm

Awesome topic! Was just thinking about this stuff last night. I'll have to read through this later tonight when I have more time.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:49 pm

Lots of good stuff here, if you wade through the weeds.

danielmm · Post by **danielmm** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:00 pm

musical benefits of intergers and floating point assholes

This is kinda funny...although maybe a tad on the hostile side. Maybe someone should post a side by side comparison. No need to get all pissy about it.

dano

Mr. Tingle · Post by **Mr. Tingle** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:22 pm

So long as the A/D D/A convertors dont clip (0db) what does it matter? Is my music really going to be better if it peaks at -12db at the A/D stage when recording?

There seems to be an implication that A/D convertors work better at certain ranges. Has anyone got any info from say RME on this subject? I'd love to hear their opinion (or a company like them).

The Chase · Post by **The Chase** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:15 am

frequency_algorithm wrote:i don't even know. i hear a lot about this mathematical computer know-how when it comes to mixing, but for me, i can't "read" about someone's mixing and understand what they are talking about. Please, if you are going to go on about musical benefits of intergers and floating point assholes, then please post your mixes so we can tell whether we should give a flying f**k about your post. That way we can waste less time reading crap on this forum and spend more time on hearing the proof of the pudding. Aren't we all musicians? Let's hear the mix!

Bollocks. His mixes are utterly irrelevant here...not sure why you would ask for them.

The guy codes DSP by hand and creates some of the best sounding synths and effects in software...His word carries more than a little merit.

Keeping your levels low in digital recording/mixing...