I could use some chord descriptions in minor.

[Subtle]

Hey, i read here that one guy though D Minor was the saddest key to play in, and i tried it, and its sad indeed.. but im not sure wether different keys actually have a distinguishe mood.

im only talking about Natural Minor key here, cause that seems to be my thing.

How i personally would describe these chords.

C Minor: Haunting..

D Minor: Sad indeed

E Minor: Not as sad as the other, more happy yet emotional

F Minor: Sad, but uplifting emotional.

A Minor: More happy.

I am a total noob to all this chord stuff, but i would love to hear how you personally, or commonly think of each minor key.

Thanks.

[gravehill]

In equal temperament there's no difference because each consecutive note is equal distance apart from the last.

Note that there are countless different tuning systems and equal temperament is the only one where the above is true. In any other system the distance from one note to the next varies and that is what makes the difference and different keys sound different indeed. The idea behind this is that equal temperament makes ALL keys sound slightly out of tune whereas other systems usually are designed to make just the most important keys sound EXACTLY in tune. This also means that the more distant keys are noticeably out of tune.

First, check out just intonation in Wikipedia, then fire up your favorite microtuning capable soft synth and start exploring the differences.

The "one guy" you mentioned was probably from Spinal Tap. Interesting thing is that when he said that he was playing piano and pianos nowadays are usually tuned in equal temperament (=no difference).

[Toxikator]

In diff. tuning systems, the presumption is that you're tuning up from a bass note, too.

So in C Just tuning, D major will sound strange; but if you wanted to play D major, it's assumed you'd be tuning to D Just tuning.

[JumpingJackFlash]

I agree with gravehill about equal temperament; theoretically there should be no difference if all other things are equal.

However, there is also a question of instrumentation. - Different instruments have different characteristics, and different registers, notes, or fingerings can sometimes make a particular sound.

For example, the lower-middle range of the clarinet usually sounds dull; around the notes we call 'throat notes'. Or, the upper-middle range of the Horn might sound heroic. So playing in a key that uses many of those notes will sound different to playing in one that doesn't use any. - Obviously there are other factors relating to how you play (dynamics being one), and a good professional should generally be able to circumvent any limitations of the instrument and produce a consistently appropriate tone.

So, in other words it depends much more on what instruments are used (and how they are used) rather than the actual key.

On a keyboard instrument there is obviously much less variation because factors such as fingering or breathing don't make any difference to the sound.

(Similarly, there are countless other methods of creating a particular effect; you can generally make any key sound happy or haunting if you know how to use it right.)

[Subtle]

I see what u mean, but some songs sounds better in specific keys

[Toxikator]

There is no discernable difference in the key ALONE. As JJF said, it has only to do with the relative timbres of the instruments at those keys... also of course how our ears hear frequencies, since you may move from the "dull" sound of one frequency up into the presence range and it will sound "brighter" (really, just louder), just as certain low notes we "feel" while others seem to be very faint. That's just a function of our ear.

Well, that's most of it anyway. There's also an element of context (situating every song on your album in A minor is stupid regardless of timbre because it's boring; in that sense new keys generate a sense of variety).

But for a piece to sound inherently "better" in, say, A minor vs. E minor? Sorry, I don't believe it can happen. They're both minor keys; outside the context of some other set of notes, there is no reason why a minor chord built on 440Hz should sound better than one built on 330Hz.

[JumpingJackFlash]

I see what u mean, but some songs sounds better in specific keys

Probably because the singer is more comfortable singing in that key. - His range better matches the range of the song for example. - Don't forget the voice is just another instrument, with its own timbral characteristics (although each voice is different).

Also, if you play something in one key, then play it in a higher key, the higher version will usually sound better. - This is a psycoacoustic thing similar to fact that we perceive louder as better; we also perceive higher as better. - That's one reason why many songs change key - they almost always go higher, very rarely do they modulate to a lower key.

If I played you a song on the piano, unless you have perfect pitch, you would not be able to tell what key it was in. - I could play it in D minor, F minor or A minor, you would never know without comparing it to something else.

There are several reason to choose one particular key over another, off the top of my head, these are:

1) To place the music in the most comfortable and/or most powerful range for one or more instruments (including voice).
2) To provide (degrees of) similarity or contrast with previous or subsequent material.
3) To make the music easier to read and/or play. (Generally fewer sharps/flats makes things easier, but not always).

Some people have the idea of conforming to convention. - For example, Country music is often in A or D, whereas Punk Rock might be in G, F or C. These are just statistical averages of course, and there is absolutely nothing to stop you from composing these things in any key you want.

[Subtle]

Alright, thanks.. I understand more now.

See, when i played to myself i found the A Minor key pretty boring.. but the reason for that simply being its a very much used key for the music i listen to (Trance)

But, do you think a person can generally "feel" or like one key better than another, or is it simply the intervals and chord progressions themselves ?

[camsr]

Yes chords are subjective. It's not relative pitch people hear SOUND with, it's absolute pitch. We hear MUSIC (notes) as relative pitch but the way our hearing works, there are small areas in the sound spectrum we call the "bass, mids, and treble".

Lets say you have a bassline that descends from the root key D. and doesn't go above this D note. Well if you place that D note in a high enough register, There is ALOT of notes underneath that D that can be used for the bassline, and still sound coherent (like, not too low). So if you write a descending bassline, you want to put it in a key and register where it will still soundoff in the bass and subbass region but be high enough to maintain coherence. Another example, lets try the key G and A. They are good for basslines that go all around the root note. That is because they have alot of sonic space around them (if in the proper register).

Also, if you work with vocals, the key of the song is really important to fit the vocalist. Some singers sound better in one key over another, and you got to find out how low or high they can go before they're out of range.

[JumpingJackFlash]

But, do you think a person can generally "feel" or like one key better than another, or is it simply the intervals and chord progressions themselves ?

To a certain extent, the frequency response of your ear can play a part. - Humans all have relatively similar frequency responses (generally the audio range is between 20Hz and 20 KHz, with the most sensitivity range somewhere around 3-4 KHz thanks to evolution), but everyone hears things slightly differently.

So, your ear might be slightly more sensitive to certain frequencies than others, and therefore certain notes, and thus certain keys may possibly sound 'better' from that point of view.

This works with speech too; I believe studies on the speeches of Adolph Hitler have shown that the frequency of his voice closely matches the frequency curve of the typical ear, this was one reason why he was able to influence people so much.

However, all this is much less significant that the other reasons for choosing a particular key. - It is much more likely that people compare what they are hearing with other music they have heard recently, or they perhaps subconsciously associate a particular key with something. Or, most likely, as I said before, is that they are influenced by the timbral characteristics of the voices or instruments in question and not the key itself.

So, it is possible that people can prefer a particular key over another, but it is much more likely that it is other factors that they are responding to, and not the actual key itself. - In other words, intervals and chord progressions make much more of a difference than the choice of key.

As I said before, any (major or minor) key can be made to sound however you want it to, and unless you have perfect pitch (which is very rare), you will not likely be able to tell a difference just by listening to the music on its own.

[Toxikator]

As they say, music is the space between the notes. No note is different from any other note except in how it relates to those around it.

[BosseJo]

Hey, i read here that one guy though D Minor was the saddest key to play in, and i tried it, and its sad indeed.. but im not sure wether different keys actually have a distinguishe mood.

im only talking about Natural Minor key here, cause that seems to be my thing.

How i personally would describe these chords.

C Minor: Haunting..

D Minor: Sad indeed

E Minor: Not as sad as the other, more happy yet emotional

F Minor: Sad, but uplifting emotional.

A Minor: More happy.

I am a total noob to all this chord stuff, but i would love to hear how you personally, or commonly think of each minor key.

Thanks.

You are not alone thinking that keys have their sound or mood. I'm pretty sure you will find info about it on the net if you do some searching. I know, for example that Paul McCartney and Larry Carlton think that different keys have a certain sound/mood and that has nothing to do with whether a singer is comfortable with in it or not.

[Basjoe]

Believe it or not, a real piano tuned by a professional will NOT be tuned equal temperament. The chap who tunes my Yamaha U3 also tunes Steinways throughout Northern England, often for the concert platform. He has only one tuning fork for a particular master pitch (a=440 for home, a=442 for some East European orchestras, a=441 for some smaller ensembles, etc.). Thereafter, everything is tuned in relation to that note using his experience and expertise.

He says that by playing a particular piano he can tell who has tuned it (he knows most other professional tuners). There are microdifferences introduced into the tuning by the personality, taste, and skill of the tuner. He says that if you tuned a real piano with equal temperament "it would lose much of its personality, and become tense and unpleasant like a digital piano". He gives a wry smile and looks pointedly at my Yamaha KX88 Master keyboard when he says this.

So if there are microdifferences in tuning, then there are differences in every diatonic/harmonic key when using a real piano. Maybe Paul McCartney is right.

Basjoe

[Subtle]

What if we abandon the Piano, and focus more on a synthesizer ?

[Toxikator]

Basjoe: The piano tuner is actually doing it WRONG, technically. If he tunes from a fork to A and then tunes by ear, he'll end up with a natural harmonic structure; this will make the key of A sound great, but other keys will sound way off.