KVR Audio

nirdosh · Post by **nirdosh** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:35 am

hello every body, my band falls in to metal genere where we use distortions overdrive blaa blaa... whenever i record my stuff i always get stuck at recording bass properly. i dont get decent gain and if i increse it more than it clips! i directly plug in bass guitar in to the mixer(project mix i/o, m-audio), without usin any external effects, so please give some good tips on how i should record the bass guitar! i have heared so many track that falls in the same genere and they sounds like WOW!! so is there any thing that i m lacking in ragarding my equipments.???

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:39 am

recording bass properly. i dont get decent gain and if i increse it more than it clips! i directly plug in bass guitar in to the mixer

Compression / limiting is the secret... The bass amp normally does that by nature. Apply these after recording (use VST plugins for example) so you can experiment without damaging the original tracks.

nirdosh · Post by **nirdosh** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:52 am

but when i record it the meter starts clipping, the volume is alredy very low that i hardly manage to listen to it when recording though i reduce the master but it lower down the volume of the bass guitar too nd i get out of sync whn i play. and also pls explain a bit about how to apply compression/ limit..what it actualy does? and just ONE more thing... i use nuendo soft. for my projects, how can we increase the volume of a particular track in monitors and at the same time how can we reduce the volume of any other track if required without disturbing the final settins or final mix.

MaliceX · Post by **MaliceX** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:56 pm

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... highlight=

BuzzRizer should be your lazy man's swiss army knife. or search BuzMaxi3.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:17 pm

nirdosh wrote:but when i record it the meter starts clipping, the volume is alredy very low that i hardly manage to listen to it when recording

In that case you might be better off by doing a bit of processing before the signal hits the PC.

Best is the DI line out of the bass amp (if available) you'd normally use.
Or do you have access to a hardware compressor / limiter to insert into the signal chain?
Next try is some guitar gear set at a clean or mildly crunchy sound. A bit of overdrive does limit the peaks also.

What a compressor / limiter does? The Slipperman explains it all:
http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/ ... n.html#vca
(read it all if you have the time... Entertainment + educational!)

He rants about the VCA in a noise gate. Compressors and limiters are variation on the same theme: a gremlin in a box with a fader, and the knobs on the box say how the gremlin should move the fader whil he views the level of sound coming in. Some parameters explained:

* Threshold says at what level the gremlin starts reducing the volume.
* Ratio says how much it will reduce volume when it goes over threshold.
* Limiters are compressors with infinite ratio: volume may never go over the threshold.
* Attack says how fast the gremlin acts when volume goes over the threshold.
* Release says how fast the gremlin acts when volume drops below threshold again.

So the idea is that you automatically "limit" the peaks. So they don't clip anymore, so you can safely increase the gain. So it's louder but without the insane peaks. So that tells you that the attack must be rather fast (low value).

And experiment... Start with setting all controls in the middle, and go from there. Listen what the effect is. Preferably on speakers, not on headphones.

Audio~Geek · Post by **Audio~Geek** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:53 pm

if you want to raise the monitor level, bring up the fader on the mixer, or turn down all the other instruments and bring up the speaker level.

For bass what I like to do is put my speaker cabinet on the couch, which will reduce it's effect on the room making it much less muddy. Also since I don't have a really short mic stand Its a much better height to mic the speaker with. Also since the cabinet is now a lot closer to ear level as oposed to floor level, it is much easier to hear the sound the mic will be hearing, always a good thing.
My amp is a Eden Nemesis NA-320 head with an Ashdown Mag 115Deep cabinet. I use a Behringer Bass BDI 21 preamp and Boss Bass Overdrive before going into the amp. I like to record the DI output of the Amp as well as micing the Speaker with a Shure PG52 large diaphragm Dynamic. Also my Bass is a Warwick Rockbass Corvette 4.
None of my gear is Top of the line, but I am so happy with the sound I get now, its so brutal.
anyway. record both the DI and Miked speaker, align the phase after recording and mix to tasted. The Mic is generally much fuller sounding and is a sound you would be most used to hearing, and the DI is very clear and unforgiving of poor playing. Compress them both moderately to even out the performance, and combine the two sounds to get you a good mix of clarity and low end.
Try to get the sound you want before recording it.

nirdosh · Post by **nirdosh** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:37 am

buddy i never used any di yet coz i dont have it, i will try if i can find it ( though its very to find out in india ) can you give me some specification i should take care of while buying it? and i have a peavey tnt115 bass amplification 15" bass amp, i use it for onstage purposes nd i dont know if its goona work well for recording purpose, one another thing, the place where i do recordings is not that much big that i can accomodate my peavey, its just a one room studio so is it possible that i can go for micing the bass , even if the monitors are in the same room??

Audio~Geek · Post by **Audio~Geek** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:03 am

If you are looking for something for bass that sounds as good as an amp(debatable) I recommend the SansAmp Bass Driver DI http://www.tech21nyc.com/bassdriver_p.html It's hella tits.

If you do a lot of recording you will want to have at least one DI, there are many that can be found quite cheaply and will get you through the job.
A DI converts the high impedence instrument(guitar/bass pickups) signal to low impedence mic level.
If you are going to record in one room, set everything up hit record and play a bit, then listen to how it sounds through the monitors, make some adjustments. When you record for real remember to mute the speakers and turn off the screen if it is a CRT. Monitor while you play on headphones which you would be doing anyway playing to a click track.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:31 am

I agree that you should probably get a DI box. Almost anything more or less decent will do. The ProjectMix doesn't have any instrument suitable inputs (quite a miss-out, if you ask me), so your bass will benefit from a DI box.

afreshcupofjoe · Post by **afreshcupofjoe** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:45 am

Simple answer: you need to use a compressor.

What is happening when you record your bass is that the signal is very dynamic, so you get a lot of big spikes (transients) in the sound that max out on the meter, but most of the sound you want is contained in the softer part that happens after the spikes. You can't turn up the gain because these transients will start clipping. So what you need to do is compress these transients which will bring down their volume relative to the softer parts. You can then crank up the gain without maxing out on the meters giving you a much fuller bass sound. Got it?

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:04 am

Well, not much need for a hardware compressor in case you're working at 24bit. Unless you can afford a really great one. Otherwise, software compressors will do the job just fine, once recording is finished.

nirdosh · Post by **nirdosh** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:36 am

well this seems preity interesting, tonight i will definetly try out the compressor. i use to put on plugins after recording the track, sinus peak compressor is the one that i have , is it good or something other will work better than this? nd from where i can get that? please dont forget to tell me about when should i put on the plugin, as the bass already clips so i believe i should put the plugin before i start recording it but will it effect the overall quality or not??

i got to take guitar classes as for now so cant sit anymore

nirdosh · Post by **nirdosh** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:21 pm

[quote="Audio~Geek"]If you are looking for something for bass that sounds as good as an amp(debatable) I recommend the SansAmp Bass Driver DI http://www.tech21nyc.com/bassdriver_p.html

hey men, there is just the page on which the pic is being displayed. please give me a site add where i can see the features and price as well

Audio~Geek · Post by **Audio~Geek** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:04 pm

Various DIs under $25
http://www.music123.com/Search/Default. ... _Price%7c0

Bass Specific DIs/processors
http://www.music123.com/Tech-21-Sans-Am ... 9984.music
http://www.music123.com/Behringer-Bass- ... 8728.music
http://www.music123.com/Behringer-Bass- ... 8727.music
http://www.music123.com/Tech-21-SansAmp ... 8737.music <-Pro Quality
http://www.music123.com/MXR-M80-Bass-Di ... 9657.music
http://www.music123.com/Behringer-V-Ton ... 6743.music <-this one I have, it is good

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:24 pm

nirdosh wrote:the bass already clips

Record it softer!! NEVER record clipped signals.

Lower the master volume (or all the other tracks) if you need to, for monitoring....

a good mix for this kindaa music?