+1Ubiety wrote:opia wrote:oh yesUbiety wrote:The bottom line is that I said, in so many words, that multiple approaches are needed in order for one to understand why swing sounds good.
one could spend minutes..hours..days..even years totally comprehending the many many intricate reasons why swing sounds good
You're right! You're right because, "Why does swing sound so 'good'?", invites speculation. It's no different than, "Does intelligent life exist elsewhere in the universe?"
Things went wrong in this thread because some want to label and nail swing with all its variants to the wall, they want to be able to look it up in a dictionary and be satisfied. Others, like myself, prefer to gain an understanding of swing as it flutters about in its natural environment, occasionally referring to the theoreticians for basic methods of articulation. And then there are those who do not care to know completely what swing might be, they prefer more mystery and they tend to be listeners rather than musicians. They prefer only to know that they like or do not like what they hear; there's no need to ask, "Why?"
Why does swing sound so "good" ?
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- KVRian
- 593 posts since 18 Dec, 2005 from Sweden
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- KVRAF
- 12615 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
you ask why, because in failing to ask "why" you leave yourself in a position where you depend upon something in faith, and ultimately you not only never know "why", but you also never learn "how".
in asking a question like "is there life in other parts of our universe?", we're lead to the question "how does life exist?", how is it created, what are the conditions required, so on. these are all very important questions which might never have been answered if the original had not been asked.
in asking a question like "is there life in other parts of our universe?", we're lead to the question "how does life exist?", how is it created, what are the conditions required, so on. these are all very important questions which might never have been answered if the original had not been asked.
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- KVRAF
- 1622 posts since 28 Jan, 2004
Sorry to butt in so late in the thread.
Do you suppose liking swing might have to do with the irregularity of a beating heart? Just think about it....
thu-THUMP thu-THUMP thu-THUMP thu-THUMP
Like why music sounds so good at 120 BPM....
Do you suppose liking swing might have to do with the irregularity of a beating heart? Just think about it....
thu-THUMP thu-THUMP thu-THUMP thu-THUMP
Like why music sounds so good at 120 BPM....
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- KVRAF
- 1975 posts since 4 Feb, 2005
As I understand it the heartbeat is part of the natural reason we like music in triplets (6/8, 3/4, triplet swing, etc.) and the human step is part of the natural reason we like music in duplets (2/4, 4/4, et al).
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- KVRAF
- 1534 posts since 18 Jan, 2005
An explanation of what it means to speculate.aciddose wrote:you ask why, because in failing to ask "why" you leave yourself in a position where you depend upon something in faith, and ultimately you not only never know "why", but you also never learn "how".
in asking a question like "is there life in other parts of our universe?", we're lead to the question "how does life exist?", how is it created, what are the conditions required, so on. these are all very important questions which might never have been answered if the original had not been asked.
I ♥ Music.
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- KVRAF
- 12615 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
i dont think a heart sounds much like that, although it is similar and what you're saying does make sense. it may be that this is a pattern which we're accustomed to; yet if that is the case it might also be interesting to take into account the fact our systems are designed to completely eliminate the sensation of our own heartbeats - might the same rhythms produced externally also be ignored?
another thing to take into account regarding musical rhythms is our history, for millions of years we have evolved and gained advantages partly do to our abilities to work efficiently through the use of regular rhythm. the beating of a drum seems very similar to the beating of a hide, especially when you realize they're nearly the same thing.
as for musical rhythms being directly related (not just casually) i have serious doubts. the most obvious thing that occurs to me when you suggest these things is that neither one of them create the same emotions when listened to as does the music which seems similar to them. they're definitely similar, and i'd say it's plausible there is a casual link between them, but i really do not think they're directly connected.
another thing to take into account regarding musical rhythms is our history, for millions of years we have evolved and gained advantages partly do to our abilities to work efficiently through the use of regular rhythm. the beating of a drum seems very similar to the beating of a hide, especially when you realize they're nearly the same thing.
as for musical rhythms being directly related (not just casually) i have serious doubts. the most obvious thing that occurs to me when you suggest these things is that neither one of them create the same emotions when listened to as does the music which seems similar to them. they're definitely similar, and i'd say it's plausible there is a casual link between them, but i really do not think they're directly connected.
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- KVRAF
- 1534 posts since 18 Jan, 2005
Some of you may have heard of circadian rhythm which is "roughly 24 hour cycle of physiological processes of living beings". Then there are "biological temporal rhythms such as daily, weekly, seasonal, and annual rhythms", which formally goes by the name chronobiology. Just a couple quotes from Wikipedia. Interesting stuff, have a look.
Personally, I don't think it's a coincidence that many musical forms and structures mimic rhythmical phenomena found in nature. In Indian classical music the use the frequency of the Earth year, 136.10 Hz, as the keynote of sitar and tambura music. It corresponds to the tuning of the sacred syllable OM. Read more here.
I find this kind of stuff endlessly fascinating. About 15 years ago while taking a train to New York City I found myself staring out of the window mesmerized by the gravel on the tracks. I became aware of the subtle differences in shades of each of the stones as the train passed them by (as the stones passed the train by?). Anyway, I imagined that every stone had its own pitch and that I could hear those pitches. Needless to say I imagined hearing noise, with some harmonics here and there, but it was rhythmical and somehow seemed to make sense. Many years later when I discovered granular synthesis and processed some audio files I remembered that experience I had on the train. What I imagined in my head back then sounded similar to my treated audio files. I was very surprised by the obvious similarities, to say the least.
Personally, I don't think it's a coincidence that many musical forms and structures mimic rhythmical phenomena found in nature. In Indian classical music the use the frequency of the Earth year, 136.10 Hz, as the keynote of sitar and tambura music. It corresponds to the tuning of the sacred syllable OM. Read more here.
I find this kind of stuff endlessly fascinating. About 15 years ago while taking a train to New York City I found myself staring out of the window mesmerized by the gravel on the tracks. I became aware of the subtle differences in shades of each of the stones as the train passed them by (as the stones passed the train by?). Anyway, I imagined that every stone had its own pitch and that I could hear those pitches. Needless to say I imagined hearing noise, with some harmonics here and there, but it was rhythmical and somehow seemed to make sense. Many years later when I discovered granular synthesis and processed some audio files I remembered that experience I had on the train. What I imagined in my head back then sounded similar to my treated audio files. I was very surprised by the obvious similarities, to say the least.
I ♥ Music.
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- KVRian
- 711 posts since 8 Sep, 2005
A materialist will never be able to figure out anything significant about music, except what sells. This is, after all, an element that lends to materialism, as it can be weighed an measured.
Music does not work on the physical body! It works on the spiritual elements that animate the physical body!!
Perhaps, this conversation should be elevated in the direction of spiritual science?
Anything else, would be, as John Lennon said, "trying to shovel smoke with a pitchfork in the wind."
Music does not work on the physical body! It works on the spiritual elements that animate the physical body!!
Perhaps, this conversation should be elevated in the direction of spiritual science?
Anything else, would be, as John Lennon said, "trying to shovel smoke with a pitchfork in the wind."
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- KVRAF
- 4867 posts since 18 Dec, 2000
16th swing sounds better to me on beats that are broken up into 16th then 8th swing.
so imo
1xxx2xxx3xxx4xxxx sounds much better with 16th note swing.
dw
so imo
1xxx2xxx3xxx4xxxx sounds much better with 16th note swing.
dw
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- KVRAF
- 12615 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
only problem would be that "spiritual science" doesnt have much to it at all 
we could discuss the elements of the brain and the states they can take on which seem to trigger "spiritual experiences" , but i really do not think that is related directly (although i'll admit it is casually!) to music
certainly a pattern set up in either region could cascade (partial seizure) and cross the boundaries into neighboring regions. an example of a cascade would be when you hear a really good piece of music and get goosebumps, or the same with different inputs. anybody have the gear to hook up some brains and print out patterns for this stuff?
volunteer.
we could discuss the elements of the brain and the states they can take on which seem to trigger "spiritual experiences" , but i really do not think that is related directly (although i'll admit it is casually!) to music
certainly a pattern set up in either region could cascade (partial seizure) and cross the boundaries into neighboring regions. an example of a cascade would be when you hear a really good piece of music and get goosebumps, or the same with different inputs. anybody have the gear to hook up some brains and print out patterns for this stuff?
volunteer.
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- KVRian
- 1020 posts since 4 Jun, 2006
Thats an interesting conceptToxikator wrote:As I understand it the heartbeat is part of the natural reason we like music in triplets (6/8, 3/4, triplet swing, etc.) and the human step is part of the natural reason we like music in duplets (2/4, 4/4, et al).
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- KVRian
- 711 posts since 8 Sep, 2005
As I am not a materialist, I do not restrict my thinking to the physical body to explain the phenomenon(s) that I am presented with. After all, what is the physical body, when the life forces have departed...ashes to ashes; dust to dust.aciddose wrote:only problem would be that "spiritual science" doesnt have much to it at all
I am offering that spiritual processes animate the physical body. In the way that light acts on the eye(s), sound acts on the ear(s). Can we not agree that we live in a world of vibrations, some which are understood; others which are not? After all, materialistic science has already breached this discovery.
According to materialistic thinking, the brain is doing it all. Not as many would argue this point in a materialistic society. However, when mankind seeks balance, it will discover spiritual processes that have always been present.
* spiritual science is NOT a form of religion (e.g. scientology)
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- KVRian
- 711 posts since 8 Sep, 2005
The entire universe moves in rhythms (e.g. night/day; the seasons, etc...). Have you never heard that everything outside of us is a living process within us? (microcosm/macrocosm)xtp wrote:Thats an interesting conceptToxikator wrote:As I understand it the heartbeat is part of the natural reason we like music in triplets (6/8, 3/4, triplet swing, etc.) and the human step is part of the natural reason we like music in duplets (2/4, 4/4, et al).
FYI: these rhythms exist outside of the human body. Ergo, these musical connections do not exist on account of the human body. One would certainly profit by seeking to understand these processes outside, and bringing them within, as real living processes. It is spiritual elements that bridge this understanding.
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- KVRian
- 1020 posts since 4 Jun, 2006
You must forgive me for that is not something I have ever considered G&L, however after reading T's post I picked up my guitar and played some improvised Jazz for about an hour or so, while keeping my concentration upon the concept that I was walking while playing.G&L_player wrote:The entire universe moves in rhythms (e.g. night/day; the seasons, etc...). Have you never heard that everything outside of us is a living process within us? (microcosm/macrocosm)xtp wrote:Thats an interesting conceptToxikator wrote:As I understand it the heartbeat is part of the natural reason we like music in triplets (6/8, 3/4, triplet swing, etc.) and the human step is part of the natural reason we like music in duplets (2/4, 4/4, et al).
(Quite interesting, especially when I stumbled once or twice, or stopped to look around. (I never use a metro-gnome or any time keeper while playin impro, (actually I never use a time keeper at all) so this introduced a new element for me. Something I most certainly intend to spend some time exploring... it is a very cool concept.))
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- KVRAF
- 8389 posts since 11 Apr, 2003 from back on the hillside again - but now with a garden!
I do wish that the year would swing in tripleted seasons...G&L_player wrote:The entire universe moves in rhythms (e.g. night/day; the seasons, etc...)
DSP
