today I was tryin to come up with good song melodies and I stumbled across something with a very smooth key change. I was just wondering if there is a theoretical explanation for why it works- and if there is- what is it?
progression goes something like this (will include whole progression so you can follow if wanted):
1.Dmaj-Amaj-Bm-Gmaj
2.Dmaj-Amaj-Bm-Emaj
3.Gmaj-Amaj-Dmaj-Dmaj/C#-Bm
4.Gmaj-Amaj::key change::Bb-C-G
5.Continue Bb-C-G
I understand whats going on here, just wondering if theres any 'golden rule' per say to attribute this key change to.
Chord progression/ Key change question
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- KVRist
- 77 posts since 27 May, 2004
well theres the law of the harmonic minor...where you change the key down 3 steps...its rule for finding the minor equivilant of a chord but it works great for finding cool key changes
www.kolemcrae.co.nr - You can't spell creativity without Kole...Wait, yes you can.
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JumpingJackFlash JumpingJackFlash https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=44005
- KVRian
- 1227 posts since 10 Oct, 2004
Hmmm.
Falconmusic; are you referring to the Relative minor? - If so, you're correct that moving to the relative minor is a very common key change. (The relative minor is a minor 3rd below the major key, they share the same key-signature. Ask if you need more info).
musikjock; Maybe it would help if you stated what key you think you're in at the start, and what key you think you're changing to. - Your first bit looks like D major, but then on the change you have both Bb and G chords. These do not belong in the same key, since G has a B-natural. - Unless you mean G minor, in which case you could be in F ??)
My Introduction to modulation (changing key) may provide some help.
Falconmusic; are you referring to the Relative minor? - If so, you're correct that moving to the relative minor is a very common key change. (The relative minor is a minor 3rd below the major key, they share the same key-signature. Ask if you need more info).
musikjock; Maybe it would help if you stated what key you think you're in at the start, and what key you think you're changing to. - Your first bit looks like D major, but then on the change you have both Bb and G chords. These do not belong in the same key, since G has a B-natural. - Unless you mean G minor, in which case you could be in F ??)
My Introduction to modulation (changing key) may provide some help.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 294 posts since 25 Apr, 2006
[quote="JumpingJackFlash"]Hmmm.
musikjock; Maybe it would help if you stated what key you think you're in at the start, and what key you think you're changing to. - Your first bit looks like D major, but then on the change you have both Bb and G chords. These do not belong in the same key, since G has a B-natural. - Unless you mean G minor, in which case you could be in F ??)
JJF- I do in fact start in Dmajor and go straight to a cold hearted change Gm / Bb. It doesnt make sense why it would sound good but it does! (especially with accompanying vocals). The change only seems to run smoothly at that exact point i pointed out in the progression (after A)
so i guess you could say the progression in Dmaj is going : IV-V-(Gm key change)into the Bb-C-G progression. and then the great thing is that it rolls smoothly right back into Dmaj! Just a dissonant key change that you can make work with the right ideas i presume? Ive also recently discovered that the whole progression sounds a little bit better a step down in Cmaj..but i guess thats just preference
musikjock; Maybe it would help if you stated what key you think you're in at the start, and what key you think you're changing to. - Your first bit looks like D major, but then on the change you have both Bb and G chords. These do not belong in the same key, since G has a B-natural. - Unless you mean G minor, in which case you could be in F ??)
JJF- I do in fact start in Dmajor and go straight to a cold hearted change Gm / Bb. It doesnt make sense why it would sound good but it does! (especially with accompanying vocals). The change only seems to run smoothly at that exact point i pointed out in the progression (after A)
so i guess you could say the progression in Dmaj is going : IV-V-(Gm key change)into the Bb-C-G progression. and then the great thing is that it rolls smoothly right back into Dmaj! Just a dissonant key change that you can make work with the right ideas i presume? Ive also recently discovered that the whole progression sounds a little bit better a step down in Cmaj..but i guess thats just preference
"You must not only aim aright, but draw the bow with all your might."
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
that Bb change is a bVI (major chord built on the flat 6)) which is just about as common and workable as the bIII (major chord built on the flat 3rd) and bVII (major chord built on the flat 7) in a 'pop' song
the Bb to C to G is a stepwise resolution that could as well have been Bb to C to D esp if D is the top note in the G chord
the bVI (Bb) 3rd is D obviously shared with the D major
the bVII (C) is sort of a continuation of that slipped key and fits in with the unexpressed bIII (which would be F)
it's deception, it sounds like it's slipping into another key and yet it doesn't.
the Bb to C to G is a stepwise resolution that could as well have been Bb to C to D esp if D is the top note in the G chord
the bVI (Bb) 3rd is D obviously shared with the D major
the bVII (C) is sort of a continuation of that slipped key and fits in with the unexpressed bIII (which would be F)
it's deception, it sounds like it's slipping into another key and yet it doesn't.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 294 posts since 25 Apr, 2006
Wrench thanks for the great insight. This all makes sense..though I was not aware that the BVI change was so common. You are also right in that G/D chord is a great choice as opposed to the G chord alone..this chord somewhat eases the transition back to the main progression.
Could this also possibly be interpreted as a passing key modulation?
Either way this progression works seems to be best suited for a bridge or outro in a pop-ish song.
Could this also possibly be interpreted as a passing key modulation?
Either way this progression works seems to be best suited for a bridge or outro in a pop-ish song.
"You must not only aim aright, but draw the bow with all your might."
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
I think I have a better explanation. I had to go back and figure out why bIII, bVI and bVII were showing up and I just happened to open up a gospel piano book.
I'm pretty sure this is borrowing from the gospel style backcycling of IV of IV. Pop and jazz backcycle with ii V or V or V's but gospel does the same with IV of IV.
so that G is the IV of your root key D
the IV of G is C
the IV of C is F
the IV of F is Bb
so that helps explain the origons of those flatted major chords. Doesn't quite fit, but it's close.
It is a form of modulation that promises movement to another key, but then snaps back to the original
I'm pretty sure this is borrowing from the gospel style backcycling of IV of IV. Pop and jazz backcycle with ii V or V or V's but gospel does the same with IV of IV.
so that G is the IV of your root key D
the IV of G is C
the IV of C is F
the IV of F is Bb
so that helps explain the origons of those flatted major chords. Doesn't quite fit, but it's close.
It is a form of modulation that promises movement to another key, but then snaps back to the original
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- KVRist
- 30 posts since 6 Oct, 2006