KVR Audio

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:15 pm

jupiter8 wrote:And suddendly you feel very very stupid when you realize the track with all the eqs on is exactly in sync with the one without.

Admittedly, this could also happen with a host offering PDC (which is what most are doing), which sometimes can't be switched off (I think that, for example, Cubase doesn't allow for it). That's why I recommended doing a realtime input bounce using a doubled and L/R panned input signal, as in that case latency can't be compensated for, so each and every latency caused by whatever plugin would clearly be shown in the resulting file.

But well, Mr. whereever won't bother testing this anyways, so in the end it doesn't even matter which test we try to describe.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:31 pm

where02190 wrote:The eq causes latency, it matters not whether it's flat or not.

where02190 wrote:Thankfully I am completely right. No process happens instantiously, it is mathematically impossible.

Ignorance is no excuse for stupidity, only laziness is.

that's odd...laziness is good and ignorance is bad? Then we're all bad, everyone was is ignorant one way or the tother. In fact I have said before the difference between ignorance and stupidity is ignorance is not knowing....stupidity is not knowing but still insisting your right.

Just curious, checked out your page...which one is you? Or should I ask do you own the studio...we're not that far apart, and I often have people asking about good studios...I need to know whether or not to recommend you.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:36 pm

I just dont know whats wrong with all you people. Neverwhore1920 is completely correct, and I cant understand why anyone is being so rude about what he's saying; latency is how long it takes for your plugins to equalise, and if they're not equal, all sorts of things wil get messed up with the computers buffers. Thats why you use an equal-iser in the first place! Its in the name for crying out loud; its just basic mathematics. The technical term is phase shift. Thats why there's a phase button to fix it on proper mixers, but thats doesnt work in digital recording because of the hard drive buffers. Unless you use a Firewire soundcard and a Firewire hard drive, of course. If you do, the buffers are both the same, so cancel each other out. Its the first thing you learn when educating yourself about the digital process.
Anyways, you have to be clever and use your equal-isers properly. If you dont, record it right, then the digital gets out of synchronisation and you need to use a proper word-clock to fix it. If you dont have a proper wordclock, then you get all the phaser errors from your allpass flanging, which messes up your phase coherence, which means your digital folds over its bits, resulting in aliasing from the bits being the wrong way up. Proper professionals record with foldback monitors which compensate for this before it happens.
Jeez, people get a f**king clue, you bunch of armatures, and learn whats happening. Otherwise you'll never be able to have a recording studio with good clients and stuff.

jackson · Post by **jackson** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:35 pm

Colonel Flashback · Post by **Colonel Flashback** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:46 pm

those bits being the wrong way up sounds like the cause for my messed up mixes - gotta investigate!

where02190 · Post by **where02190** » Mon May 07, 2007 9:36 pm

Hink wrote:
where02190 wrote:The eq causes latency, it matters not whether it's flat or not.

where02190 wrote:Thankfully I am completely right. No process happens instantiously, it is mathematically impossible.

Ignorance is no excuse for stupidity, only laziness is.
that's odd...laziness is good and ignorance is bad? Then we're all bad, everyone was is ignorant one way or the tother. In fact I have said before the difference between ignorance and stupidity is ignorance is not knowing....stupidity is not knowing but still insisting your right.

Just curious, checked out your page...which one is you? Or should I ask do you own the studio...we're not that far apart, and I often have people asking about good studios...I need to know whether or not to recommend you.

Neither ignorance OR laziness is good, once again the point when stright over your head.

We'll pass on recommendations from you. Business is just fine.

lshea · Post by **lshea** » Mon May 07, 2007 9:52 pm

I had a pissing competition with Tony Visconti yesterday - I told him I'd bought a new Behringer mixer and he says I'll never be a professional now.

I'm now looking for another job...

lshea · Post by **lshea** » Mon May 07, 2007 9:57 pm

where02190 wrote:Thankfully I am completely right. No process happens instantiously, it is mathematically impossible.

Seriously, this is right up there for KvR post of the year so far.

"Instantiously" ????

Genius...

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:15 pm

lshea wrote: "Instantiously" ????

Genius...

Indeed. Instantious processing is on the vanguard of new mathematics. Its so new, most mathematicians, dictionary compilers, and plugin developers haven't actually heard of it yet.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:27 pm

where02190 wrote:
Hink wrote:
where02190 wrote:The eq causes latency, it matters not whether it's flat or not.

where02190 wrote:Thankfully I am completely right. No process happens instantiously, it is mathematically impossible.

Ignorance is no excuse for stupidity, only laziness is.
that's odd...laziness is good and ignorance is bad? Then we're all bad, everyone was is ignorant one way or the tother. In fact I have said before the difference between ignorance and stupidity is ignorance is not knowing....stupidity is not knowing but still insisting your right.

Just curious, checked out your page...which one is you? Or should I ask do you own the studio...we're not that far apart, and I often have people asking about good studios...I need to know whether or not to recommend you.
Neither ignorance OR laziness is good, once again the point when stright over your head.

We'll pass on recommendations from you. Business is just fine.

why be a tool, I asked reasonable questions? You said once again your point went over my head, was there another time you felt a point of yours went over my head? Sorry
I can't recall one, obviously my point was lost on you...I'm glad to hear your business is so good you can turn away customers from someone you don't know...I though may actually know quite a few people on the south shore...in fact years back one of my bands rehearsed in Rockland at the mills and I still have friends in the area...but I guess I could never be worthy of you....sometime I think I'll call your studio just the same and see if your partners agree, because I really am looking for a place to go to for vox and I saw you had an isolation booth...I spend time in Marshfield anyhow as my wife has friends there...it would be a win/win for me..

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon May 07, 2007 11:02 pm

in fairness that didn't come out right...I was going to pm you but I can't...I am serious about studio time this summer...perhaps you should pm me.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:25 pm

Hink wrote:in fairness that didn't come out right...I was going to pm you but I can't...I am serious about studio time this summer...perhaps you should pm me.

yes, he will be making the tea/coffee for artists as well as the engineers. this is included in the cost of the studio.
however any sandwiches or other food is ordered from outside caterers so please let him know a couple of days in advance what your requirements are in that area, plus this cost is added to your final bill.
also prearrange your break times with n.where so he can have everything served up ready in the dining area.
please remember no food, drink or smoking in the studio areas.

we hope this helps with your enquiry.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Tue May 08, 2007 10:42 pm

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Wed May 09, 2007 12:18 am

Kingston wrote:I finally understand how you completely missed all the reasoning and common sense back when you were up in arms defending the myth of NS10.

Gearslutz and the 'ABC of mixing by Roger Nichols for the conservative American audio engineer'.. "The unbreakable rules of audio."

always funny to see people reciting those as the holy truth.

Indeed.. this guy is quite funny. Check out the groovy gear they have at their studio tho. The "know how" that is shown here on KvR, in multiple threads, is quite scary though. I wouldn't put my money on these guys.

- bManic

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Wed May 09, 2007 12:20 am

whyterabbyt wrote:I just dont know whats wrong with all you people. Neverwhore1920 is completely correct, and I cant understand why anyone is being so rude about what he's saying; latency is how long it takes for your plugins to equalise, and if they're not equal, all sorts of things wil get messed up with the computers buffers. Thats why you use an equal-iser in the first place! Its in the name for crying out loud; its just basic mathematics. The technical term is phase shift. Thats why there's a phase button to fix it on proper mixers, but thats doesnt work in digital recording because of the hard drive buffers. Unless you use a Firewire soundcard and a Firewire hard drive, of course. If you do, the buffers are both the same, so cancel each other out. Its the first thing you learn when educating yourself about the digital process.
Anyways, you have to be clever and use your equal-isers properly. If you dont, record it right, then the digital gets out of synchronisation and you need to use a proper word-clock to fix it. If you dont have a proper wordclock, then you get all the phaser errors from your allpass flanging, which messes up your phase coherence, which means your digital folds over its bits, resulting in aliasing from the bits being the wrong way up. Proper professionals record with foldback monitors which compensate for this before it happens.
Jeez, people get a f**king clue, you bunch of armatures, and learn whats happening. Otherwise you'll never be able to have a recording studio with good clients and stuff.

help connecting my mixer