Basic jazz theory

[VicDiesel]

Substitute dominants are defined as dominant chords whose root is non-diatonic and whose implied resolution is a semitone down to a diatonic chord. Hence (in C) Db->C, Eb->D, Gb->F, Ab->G and Bb->A.

I understand that. My question was:

1/ what does "SV7/ii" mean? Is "SV7" a chord?

2/ if so, why do you (seem to) use "SV7" for several different chords.

Victor.

[nuffink]

Substitute dominants are defined as dominant chords whose root is non-diatonic and whose implied resolution is a semitone down to a diatonic chord. Hence (in C) Db->C, Eb->D, Gb->F, Ab->G and Bb->A.

I understand that. My question was:

1/ what does "SV7/ii" mean? Is "SV7" a chord?

2/ if so, why do you (seem to) use "SV7" for several different chords.

Victor.

SV7 (or subV7) shorthand for substitute V7. It only really makes sense in relation to secondary dominants being labled V7/x where x is the target.

[nuffink]

Here ya go, Vic. There's a bunch more in this thread. Though, as it says, those are somewhat less well known (i.e. I haven't got any sources, though I'm not presumptuous enough to believe I made them up).

[eddu]

Hi there,

Very interested on this. Didn't know about substitute dominants. Great tools.

However i find myself a bit lost with all of the info written in the first post. I think it would be very useful (for newbies as me at least) to have some standard or well known song analized in order to see how everything is connected. Anyone dares?

[eddu]

Hi there,

Very interested on this. Didn't know about substitute dominants. Great tools.

However i find myself a bit lost with all of the info written in the first post. I think it would be very useful (for newbies as me at least) to have some standard or well known song analized in order to see how everything is connected. Anyone dares?

[nuffink]

Hi there,

Very interested on this. Didn't know about substitute dominants. Great tools.

However i find myself a bit lost with all of the info written in the first post. I think it would be very useful (for newbies as me at least) to have some standard or well known song analized in order to see how everything is connected. Anyone dares?

Overwhelmingly the most common substitute dominant progression is the ii-7 - bII7 - I. In C this would be D-7 - Db7 - C. The Db7 substitutes for the G7 of the standard jazz ii-7 - V7 - I progression (it's why the term substitute dominant was coined) giving a beautiful chromatically descending bassline. It really is one of the defining sounds of jazz. Play it once and you'll realise how often you've heard it.

[Download SOphist]

we are talking jazz on KvR?

how many jazz-rians here?

nice topic, will check it out later.

[Sascha Franck]

I really don't want to be picky - but I sort of have to, sorry, nuffink

Using a "-" for a minor chord and a triangle (heck, I don't even know how to type it) for a major 7th chord usually is not referred as good ideas anymore. Almost the same goes for the half diminished 7th chord and the diminished 7th chord symbols.
When reading sheets, the triangle can easily be confused with a circle, especially when dealing with handwritten sheets under less than ideal light conditions. And vice versa for the (half)diminished symbols.
The "-" sometimes is barely readable as well, especially when (for whatever reasons) you need to write it inside the staff.

That's why I think the sort of internationally agreed Berklee system (which you will find in most newer real- and fakebooks) is a better choice.
Major 7th chords are indexed "maj7" (or sometimes just "j7", in case space is an issue), minor chords are indexed "min" (or sometimes just "m"), diminished chords get a "dim" and halfdiminished becomes "min7b5" (or "m7b5").

Please believe me, this is not splitting hairs or anything like that. I am earning a good amount of my income be playing from sheets - and I've been through all the mentioned situations more than just once. After a while you really adore good written sheets using the Berklee/Realbook system.

Apart from that, some fine information there.

[eddu]

I second that. It would be more clear to see the terms Sascha says. Please nuffink...

[nuffink]

I hear ya, but I'm not going back and editing that lot. I'll use more standard notation if and when I post something else.

[herodotus]

<hopeless rant #6>Of course if you people would give up these #@*&ing chord charts with their 12 different forms depending on which book you use, and just used standard musical notation, everyone could know what everyone else was talking about without all of this crap.

Really, I have to translate half of the stuff that I read in this forum into notation just to make sense of it.

Chord symbols are useful for jobbing musicians who are sight reading charts. But for analysis, they are a really poor substitute for notation, which, whatever its many flaws, is at least consistent and unambiguous. </hopeless rant #6>

[nuffink]

Ok I relented but it's a find and replace job so there may be some dodgy bits...

The basic harmonic unit of jazz is the four note 7th chord.

I'll be using the following shorthand...

Diminished 7... dim7
Half Diminished 7... m7b5
Minor 7... min7
Minor Major 7... minMaj7
Dominant 7... 7
Major 7... Maj7
Augmented 7... aug7
Augmented Major 7... augMaj7

Capitalised romans = chord has major third
Lower case romans = chord has minor third

Key of C.

Diatonic Major Chords
CMaj7, Dmin7, Emin7, FMaj7, G7, Amin7, Bm7b5
IMaj7, iimin7, iiimin7, IVMaj7, V7, vimin7, viim7b5

Substitute Dominant Chords
Db7, Eb7, Gb7, Ab7, Bb7
bII7, bIII7, bV7, bVI7, bVII7
Function... SV7/I, SV7/ii, SV7/VI, SV7/V, SV7/VI

Secondary Dominant Chords
C7, D7, E7, A7, B7
I7, II7, III7, VI7, VII7
Function... V7/IV, V7/V, V7/vi, V7/ii, V7/iii

Modal Interchange from parallel scales and modes
Harmonic Minor Scale
CminMaj7, Dm7b5, EbaugMaj7, Fmin7 & Fm7b5, G7, AbMaj7, Bdim7
iminMaj7, iim7b5, bIIIaugMaj7, ivmin7 & ivm7b5, V7, bVIMaj7, viidim7

Melodic Minor Scale
CminMaj7, Dmin7, EbaugMaj7, F7, Gaug7 & G7, Am7b5, Bm7b5 & Baug7(alt)
iminMaj7, iimin7, bIIIaugMaj7, IV7, V+ & V7, vim7b5, vim7b5 & viiaug7(alt)

Dorian Mode
Cmin7, Dmin7, EbMaj7, F7, Gmin7, Am7b5, BbMaj7
imin7, iimin7, bIIIMaj7, IV7, vmin7, vim7b5, bVIIMaj7

Phrygian Mode
Cmin7, DbMaj7, Eb7, Fmin7, Gm7b5, AbMaj7, Bbmin7
imin7, bIIMaj7, bIII7, ivmin7, vm7b5, bVIMaj7, bviimin7

Lydian Mode
CMaj7, D7, Emin7, F#m7b5, GMaj7, Amin7, Bmin7
IMaj7, II7, iiimin7, #ivm7b5, VMaj7, vimin7, viimin7

Mixolydian Mode
C7, Dmin7, Em7b5, FMaj7, Gmin7, Amin7, BbMaj7
I7, iimin7, iiim7b5, IVMaj7, vmin7, vimin7, bVIIMaj7

Aolian Mode (Natural Minor Scale)
Cmin7, Dm7b5, EbMaj7, Fmin7, Gmin7, AbMaj7, Bb7
imin7, iim7b5, bIIIMaj7, ivmin7, vmin7, bVIMaj7, bVII7

Locrian Mode
Cmin7, DbMaj7, Ebmin7, Fmin7, GbMaj7, Ab7, Bbmin7
Imin7, bIIMaj7, biiimin7, ivmin7, bVMaj7, bVI7, bviimin7

Special Function Dominants
The following regularly get used as cadential to the tonic (I) chord.
F7 (IV7)
D7 (II7)
Ab7 (bVI7)
Bb7 (bVII7)
B7 (VII7)


Diminished Chords Shamelessly lifted from http://a-no-ne.com/music/theory/
Diatonic functioning
Cdim7 resolves to CMaj77 (idim7 resolves to IMaj7)
C#dim7 resolves to Dmin7 (#idim7 resolves to iimin7)
Ebdim7 resolves to Dmin7 (biiidim7 resolves to iimin7)
D#dim7 resolves to Emin7 (#iidim7 resolves to iiimin7)
F#dim7 resolves to G7 (#ivdim7 resolves to V7)
Gdim7 resolves to G7 (vdim7 resolves to V7)
G#dim7 resolves to Fmin7 (#vdim7 resolves to vimin7)
Abdim7 resolves to G7 (bvidim7 resolves to V7)

Non-Diatonic functioning
Dbdim7 goes to CMaj77 (biidim7 goes to IMaj7)
Gbdim7 goes to FMaj77 (bvdim7 goes to IVMaj7)
Abdim7 goes to G7 (bvidim7 goes to V7)
Bbdim7 goes to Amin7 (bviidim7 goes to vimin7)
A#dim7 goes to B7 (#vidim7 goes to viim7b5)

Chord Scales Unceremoniously plundered from http://www.outsideshore.com/school/musi ... /index.htm
Diminished 7 (dim7)
C WH diminished

Half Diminished 7 (m7b5)
C locrian
C locrian #2
Bb harmonic minor
Db major bebop
Ab dominant bebop

Minor 7 (min7)
C dorian
C natural minor
C minor pentatonic
Eb major bebop
F dominant bebop
Bb major bebop
C melodic minor
C blues
C phrygian
C sus pentatonic
F major pentatonic
Ab major pentatonic
C phrygian #6
C Spanish phrygian
C in sen

Minor Major 7 (minMaj7)
C melodic minor
C harmonic minor
Eb major bebop
D in sen

Dominant 7 (7)
C mixolydian
C dominant bebop
C blues
C sus pentatonic
C major pentatonic
F major bebop
F major pentatonic
C lydian dominant
C HW diminished
F harmonic minor
Ab Spanish phrygian
C altered

Dominant 7 suspended 2 (7sus)
Ab major bebop
F harmonic minor
C phrygian #6
C phrygian
C Spanish phrygian
C in sen

Major 7 (Maj7)
C major
C lydian
C major bebop
C major pentatonic
G dominant bebop
G major pentatonic
B Spanish phrygian
C lydian
B in sen

Augmented 7 (aug7)
C whole tone
F melodic minor

Augmented Major 7 (augMaj7)
C lydian augmented
C major bebop

[nuffink]

<hopeless rant #6>Of course if you people would give up these #@*&ing chord charts with their 12 different forms depending on which book you use, and just used standard musical notation, everyone could know what everyone else was talking about without all of this crap.

Really, I have to translate half of the stuff that I read in this forum into notation just to make sense of it.

Chord symbols are useful for jobbing musicians who are sight reading charts. But for analysis, they are a really poor substitute for notation, which, whatever its many flaws, is at least consistent and unambiguous. </hopeless rant #6>

Sorry, I don't have any way of notating the dots. I'm not sure who I'd be talking to even if I did. If I have an audience at all I doubt many of them sight read.

[eddu]

Thank you for the effort nuffink

[herodotus]

<hopeless rant #6>Of course if you people would give up these #@*&ing chord charts with their 12 different forms depending on which book you use, and just used standard musical notation, everyone could know what everyone else was talking about without all of this crap.

Really, I have to translate half of the stuff that I read in this forum into notation just to make sense of it.

Chord symbols are useful for jobbing musicians who are sight reading charts. But for analysis, they are a really poor substitute for notation, which, whatever its many flaws, is at least consistent and unambiguous. </hopeless rant #6>

Sorry, I don't have any way of notating the dots. I'm not sure who I'd be talking to even if I did. If I have an audience at all I doubt many of them sight read.

Yes. Hence the 'hopeless'.

But I have to wonder, given the confusion that I feel when looking at chord symbols, if others aren't similarly confused without knowing it.

As for not having a way to notate, have you seen the noteworthy player? It turns midi files into notation, and it's free. Just bang out the chords on a keyboard and it does the work.

Really nuffink, I appreciate the amount of work you put into this stuff. I have just hated chord symbols ever since I found out that they came in 14 different varieties. I realize, though, that I am in the minority here.