KVR Audio

parke02 · Post by **parke02** » Fri May 11, 2007 3:52 am

There is something thats been bugging me lately. I noticed this today when I was recording a mono patch of my Virus.

I recorded the output of the Virus > Tapco Mix100 analog mixer > input of my E-MU soundcard. Should the recorded signal's left and right channels be EXACTLY the same dB since its a mono patch?

B/C i noticed that the left channel gets recorded a little bit louder than the right. So I bypassed the mixer altogether and recorded from the synth directly to the input of my soundcard. The channels are now closer to being even.

Looking at my cables (cheap Hosa cables), the synth > mixer cables are TRS but the mixer > soundcard cables are TS. I remember reading that unbalanced cables aren't really a problem unless they're traveling a long distance.

Is signal loss just something that occurs when you have more electronics in the signal chain? Bad cables or crappy mixer?

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:21 am

You just have to adjust the gain trims on the Tapco mixer on both channels, so they arrive at the exact same level in your DAW. Even on expensive mixers you can't depend on the "0dB" setting to be exactly 0dB. If it's less than 0.5dB off then that's already pretty accurate

And your observation is somewhat correct: less parts in the recording chain give better results. So bypass that mixer if you want pristine recordings.

But why record something that's mono on a stereo track? That's waisting resources....

parke02 · Post by **parke02** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:36 am

I'm recording onto a Stereo channel, so there aren't individual trim pots for the L/R signal. I could use the pan knob...

I typically don't record mono tracks. The reason why this is bothering me is b/c all stereo patch recordings are affected as well. The left channle of the stereo signal will be recorded louder.

where02190 · Post by **where02190** » Fri May 11, 2007 3:09 pm

How much difference are we talking here?

How are you deriving two outputs from a mono source w/o the mixer?

Morew importantly, why waste space recording a dual mono signal rather than simply recording a mono signal. If you insist on going through the mixer just take either the left or the right out to your soundcard to a mono track.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Fri May 11, 2007 3:37 pm

where02190 wrote:How are you deriving two outputs from a mono source w/o the mixer?

Read it again, Where02190:

Parke02 wrote:I recorded the output of the Virus > Tapco Mix100 analog mixer > input of my E-MU soundcard. Should the recorded signal's left and right channels be EXACTLY the same dB since its a mono patch?

So the virus synth uses a patch that's mono, so identical signals come out of it's left and right outputs. That goes into a stereo channel on the Tapco mixer, then stereo again into the soundcard.

where02190 wrote:Morew importantly, why waste space recording a dual mono signal rather than simply recording a mono signal. If you insist on going through the mixer just take either the left or the right out to your soundcard to a mono track.

Ditto, what I said earlier...

where02190 · Post by **where02190** » Fri May 11, 2007 6:17 pm

BertKoor wrote:
where02190 wrote:How are you deriving two outputs from a mono source w/o the mixer?
Read it again, Where02190:
Parke02 wrote:I recorded the output of the Virus > Tapco Mix100 analog mixer > input of my E-MU soundcard. Should the recorded signal's left and right channels be EXACTLY the same dB since its a mono patch?
So the virus synth uses a patch that's mono, so identical signals come out of it's left and right outputs. That goes into a stereo channel on the Tapco mixer, then stereo again into the soundcard..

You need to read the question again, I asked how they derived the two outputs (for the test w/o the mixer) w/0 (which stands for without) the mixer.

So, back at ya, read it again.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:10 pm

The answers are there already, Wherever, and I'm not going to point you at it. Because it's simply done by skipping the mixer inbetween, plugging the Virus directly into the audio interface. The virus spits out two identical signals from it's left + right outputs for mono patches.

Still unanswered indeed: how much of a difference are we talking about?

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:11 pm

[edit]double post...[/edit]

where02190 · Post by **where02190** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:34 pm

BertKoor wrote:The answers are there already, Wherever, and I'm not going to point you at it. Because it's simply done by skipping the mixer inbetween, plugging the Virus directly into the audio interface. The virus spits out two identical signals from it's left + right outputs for mono patches.

Still unanswered indeed: how much of a difference are we talking about?

That has nothing to do with my question, which wasn't even asked of you BTW, which was how they created 2 inputs to the AD from a mono output?

As I said, YOU are the one that needs to read the post again, as YOU are the one that is not comprehending the question that isn't even being posed to you.

Better yet, how about you don't reply and let the poster whom I am asking the question of reply.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:53 pm

parke02 wrote:There is something thats been bugging me lately. I noticed this today when I was recording a mono patch of my Virus.

I recorded the output of the Virus > Tapco Mix100 analog mixer > input of my E-MU soundcard. Should the recorded signal's left and right channels be EXACTLY the same dB since its a mono patch?

B/C i noticed that the left channel gets recorded a little bit louder than the right. So I bypassed the mixer altogether and recorded from the synth directly to the input of my soundcard. The channels are now closer to being even.

Looking at my cables (cheap Hosa cables), the synth > mixer cables are TRS but the mixer > soundcard cables are TS. I remember reading that unbalanced cables aren't really a problem unless they're traveling a long distance.

Is signal loss just something that occurs when you have more electronics in the signal chain? Bad cables or crappy mixer?

Hi there Parke!

Never mind my previous posts in this thread, but could you explain to our pig-headed friend Wherever how you derived two identical channels from that mono patch in your Virus synth, patched directly into the soundcard?

That must have been rocket-science, using two patch cables... one for the left and one for the right channel, both carrying the same signal emitted by the Virus

where02190 · Post by **where02190** » Mon May 14, 2007 11:41 pm

Is that what the original poster did? Were you there? HOW they derived 2 outputs from one might explain why there's a difference, you f**king retard. How about you shut the f**k up and let the original poster answer instead of feebly trying to encite another pissing contest?

Hey I think your fries are burning.....

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon May 14, 2007 11:49 pm

The only thing I'd really like to know (apart from wherever being unfriendly again, to put it mildly - but we will never know) would be why you are recording a mono patch in stereo at all. That simply doesn't make any sense to me.

parke02 · Post by **parke02** » Mon May 14, 2007 11:55 pm

BertKoor wrote:The answers are there already, Wherever, and I'm not going to point you at it. Because it's simply done by skipping the mixer inbetween, plugging the Virus directly into the audio interface. The virus spits out two identical signals from it's left + right outputs for mono patches.

Still unanswered indeed: how much of a difference are we talking about?

I'm not at home right now, but from what I recall, after bypassing the mixer maybe 1/4 dB. Going through the mixer almost 1 dB.

parke02 · Post by **parke02** » Tue May 15, 2007 12:02 am

where02190 wrote:
BertKoor wrote:The answers are there already, Wherever, and I'm not going to point you at it. Because it's simply done by skipping the mixer inbetween, plugging the Virus directly into the audio interface. The virus spits out two identical signals from it's left + right outputs for mono patches.

Still unanswered indeed: how much of a difference are we talking about?
That has nothing to do with my question, which wasn't even asked of you BTW, which was how they created 2 inputs to the AD from a mono output?

As I said, YOU are the one that needs to read the post again, as YOU are the one that is not comprehending the question that isn't even being posed to you.

Better yet, how about you don't reply and let the poster whom I am asking the question of reply.

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking, but the Virus TI is a stereo instrument. The ouput is mono b/c the patch is mono. I didn't mean to imply that the synth I was playing had a single mono ouput that was being split into a stereo signal.

parke02 · Post by **parke02** » Tue May 15, 2007 12:06 am

Sascha Franck wrote:The only thing I'd really like to know (apart from wherever being unfriendly again, to put it mildly - but we will never know) would be why you are recording a mono patch in stereo at all. That simply doesn't make any sense to me.

Well, I almost never record mono patches, I just happened to be messing around with some patches and recording at the same time when I noticed this.

Either way, does it make a difference whether a mono patch is recorded on a single mono channnel or a stereo channel?

Recording mono ouput in stereo