How to use modes in chord progressions?

[movax]

I understand how the mode scales are constructed. And I am a pretty decent rhythm guitarist in normal Major and Minor.

How can I modify my playing to incorporate the other modes? Is it a matter of translating what I do in Ionian (mainly referring to chord progs) into other 'shapes' given by the modes? Does this mean all the chord fingerings become as weird as I think they do? Or are the modes mainly for leads/melodies? Hope this makes sense!

[nuffink]

How can I modify my playing to incorporate the other modes? Is it a matter of translating what I do in Ionian (mainly referring to chord progs) into other 'shapes' given by the modes?

No it isn't. Although this is a common mistake. Try it and you'll soon be frustrated. None of the other modes generate particularly useable chords when used this way.

If you like I'll try and teach you as a Q&A session. There's more chance of you getting it and it may help others. Up for it?

[movax]

Thanks for the reply. That makes me feel better. QnA? Sure why not!

[nuffink]

Ok. We'll start in C major, and since this is jaaaath theory we'll use 7th chords

The tertian chords of C major are CMaj7, Dmin7, Emin7, FMaj7, G7, Amin7 and Bmin7b5. You can play any of those chords (though some progressions are stronger than others) and any of the notes C, D, E, F, G, A, B over those chords and still be in key.

Ok so far?

[movax]

Yep got it. Whee!

[nuffink]

Another way of looking at what you're doing is that you're playing ...
C Ionian over CMaj7
D Dorian over Dmin7
E Phyrigian over Emin7
F Lydian over FMaj7
G Mixolydian over G7
A Aolian over Amin7
B Locrian over Bmin7b5

It's exactly the same 7 notes played over exactly the same 7 chords. It's just another way of thinking about what you're doing.

I'm sure you understand this but bear with me there is a point to it.

Ok?

[movax]

Yes that makes sense. Could you also say you were playing E Phrygian over CMaj7?

[nuffink]

Yes that makes sense. Could you also say you were playing E Phrygian over CMaj7?

Not that particular combination but that's exactly the right principle.

You can play CIonian or CLydian over CMaj7
You can play FIonian or FLydian over FMaj7

CLydian and CIonian both contain the notes C E G and B which form the CMajor7 chord.
FLydian and FIonian both contain the notes F A C and E which form the Fmajor7 chord.

For the same reason you can play...
DDorian, DPhyrigian or DAolian over Dmin7
EDorian, EPhyrigian or EAolian over Emin7
ADorian, APhyrigian or AAolian over Amin7

The 4 notes of the chord are contained in the 7 notes of the mode.

With it so far? It gets better.

[movax]

Play the mode that contains the chord notes. Makes sense!

[nuffink]

Play the mode that contains the chord notes. Makes sense!

Exactly.

But look a bit closer. Lets play ADorian over Amin7.
The notes of ADorian are A, B, C, D, E, F# and G
You're still playing, nominally, in C major because Amin7 is a diatonic chord within the key of Cmajor but you're also playing an accidental (F#) over that chord. Yet it still sounds natural, it still sounds "in key".

Happy with this so far?

[movax]

Sorry for the delay - had to take a call (shh I'm working tech support).

Yes that makes sense.. Accidentals, are what I'm really interested in..
Usually I end up playing them quite 'accidentally'.

[nuffink]

OK.

If you take what I've posted so far to it's logical conclusion you'll realise that you have 2 scales based upon the parallel (beginning on the same root) Ionian and Lydian modes which can be played over any major 7th chords and 3 scales based upon the parallel Dorian, Phrygian and Aolian modes which can be played over any minor 7th chords.

Each of these scales will give you different accidentals and, crucially, these accidentals will be consistent and under your control. If you play the Phrygian over a minor 7th it will have a particular feel, the Aolian will have another feel.

Already you have expanded the possibilities of the major scale massively and we've not even begun to deal with chord scales which are generated by the modes of the parallel minor scales.

Do you have any questions?

[movax]

Thats a pretty good explanation actually. There are 2 notes/questions:
1. What you've mentioned applies to playing scales over chords. So really, the modes don't
do anything when played by themselves, but its all about the interaction with the backing harmony.
2. You mention all the 7th chords, but I assume the same things could be said for triads?

[nuffink]

Thats a pretty good explanation actually. There are 2 notes/questions:
1. What you've mentioned applies to playing scales over chords. So really, the modes don't
do anything when played by themselves, but its all about the interaction with the backing harmony.
2. You mention all the 7th chords, but I assume the same things could be said for triads?

1. Spot on. Modes are only used to generate chord scales. They're just a convenient way of remembering which scales are played over which chords. A jazzer can say to you "One, Six, Two, Five progression. Key of C. All minors Dorian" and that's all the information you need to play along.
2. Sure. In jazz theory triads can be thought of as sevenths with the seventh missing. A kind of stunted voicing.

I've layed out the relationship between chords and modes in more detail this thread... http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=164576 check it out.
There's also a link in there to a page in Marc Sabatella's site which details a mind blowing number of chord scales.

I'm off to bed now, I'll check back tomorrow to see if you have any more questions.

Have fun.

[movax]

Man, thanks for the free lesson!
It never ceases to amaze me how many different things can
come from those 12 little notes! And different ways of *thinking about* and *presenting* them.

Seems I always come across cool chord progs that are in no discernible key. The modes
will help tie them together. Good stuff! Thanks again.