GUIfight '06 edition (Poly-Ana vs the naysayers)

[Amberience]

Too much going on visually.

[bleebsen]

I can flick those mod source selector dials way faster than I could navigate a drop down list.

That's true. But you cannot always read to what setting you're dialing. The labels on these dials are really just a couple of pixels big. And on my 17" LCD at 1280x1024 at comfortable working distance it's just not legible. Unless of course I lean forward and focus sharply. Which is not very pleasuring for a long time.

I love SCAMP and I so far I really like Poly-Ana and will probably buy it anyway, but a drop down list or something like an odometer (which I suggested in a private conversation with you some month ago, too) would be easier to see and could still be stylish.

yours
bleeb

[emdot_ambient]

...folk who dream of dressing up in some Rick Wakeman PVC Jesus suit and riding the Moog pole till it hurts.

This technology came about 30 years too late for me, then!

I use VAZ Modular, and have always appreciated the drop down patching system for two reasons: 1) its ease of use, and 2) unlike other modulars where you can see the signal path at a glance, VAZ forces you to become intimate with the signal flow...It's a great mechanism to help you learn synth programming expertly.

Agree with point 1, totally disagree with point 2. What it does is to inhibit the user's desire to figure out what's going on in a patch.

[NOTE: I have no clue if the following has changed in v.3 of VAZ Modular, I'm still on an old version]
The problem with Vaz's system is that in order to understand how a patch works, you've got to go through the patch BACKWARDS. The dropdown signal path structure is a "pull" not a "push." So if your patch has the following:

Osc2==>Filter1==>OutputRight

You have to look at OutputRight to see what's feeding it (in this case, Filter1). Then you have to find Filter1 to find out it's being fed by Osc2. This is completely backward to how most people build patches. Generally you build a patch starting from the OSC and moving toward the output. Having patch chords graphically represented gives you an immediate idea of what's feeding what, and you can easily understand multiple signal paths. Dropdown menus make it extremely difficult to quickly follow, and keep in mind, more than one signal path.

As for Poly-Ana's GUI? I like the way it looks and it seems fairly straight forward . . . but something about the color and 3D appearance makes me not want to look at it, even though I generally think size matters . . . uh, in VSTi's. Yeah, that's what I meant.

[shamann]

The problem with Vaz's system is that in order to understand how a patch works, you've got to go through the patch BACKWARDS. The dropdown signal path structure is a "pull" not a "push." So if your patch has the following:

Osc2==>Filter1==>OutputRight

You have to look at OutputRight to see what's feeding it (in this case, Filter1). Then you have to find Filter1 to find out it's being fed by Osc2. This is completely backward to how most people build patches. Generally you build a patch starting from the OSC and moving toward the output. Having patch chords graphically represented gives you an immediate idea of what's feeding what, and you can easily understand multiple signal paths. Dropdown menus make it extremely difficult to quickly follow, and keep in mind, more than one signal path.

Interesting, as I tend to do the opposite. I scan the patch fields to see where a sounds starts, look at what is going on with that module and scan patch fields to see where it goes, and so on.

[AdmiralQuality]

Poly is a bit of both "push" and "pull".

The audio signal path is push. The osc's are panned between the two possible destination filters at each osc. The filters are routed to either VCA or through the other filter at the filters.

Modulation is all pull though. You select the modulation source you want AT the destination, right next to the thing being modulated. I far prefer this to having to go look at some distant section to see what's making something wiggle. It's what I don't like about the Prophet 5's layout... Why is my filter modulating? Oh cuz some button over on the other side of the synth is pressed. I far prefer the Roland Jupiter/Juno style where the modulator amounts (and any switches to choose between sources) are in the sections being modulated.

It's hard for me to say, because I designed it (and I've been designing this layout in the back of my mind for the last 20+ years) but I think it's fairly intuitive, especially given its complexity. Aside from the innovations in the sound engine, I think voice architecture and layout is Poly-Ana's other major contribution. It's just a LOT of voice structure, very flexible, while still being knob and switch based rather than a mess of patch cables. Sure, squinting isn't fun, but I'll take squinting over having to grab the mouse to wiggle a patch cable out of the way. This was the point, you don't have to poke at it to see what's going on, you only need to look.

Other background color schemes ARE on the Coming Soon list. So if the deep red isn't your thing, just wait.

And yes, EVENTUALLY (not soon) I'll doubtless provide a dropdown list option to replace the dials. (Won't save any screen space, but you shouldn't have to squint to read them.)

[RTaylor]

Personally, I think all guis should be done in ansi text in a terminal window with all the appropriate key commands as well as the mouse working.

A bit like:

Oscillator 1
Oct -1 Semitone: 07 Fine: 09 KeyTrack: -05 White Noise: 0 Wave: 7
Inv Phase: 0 Pulse Width: 20 Dest: F1 Dest Waveform: B Amp Level: 55%
Source 1: E3 Amount: 6 Source 2: LFO1 Amount: 2 Source 3: E2 Amount: 4 Source 4: LFO1 Amount: 5

Oscillator 2
Oct +1 Semitone: 12 Fine: 00 KeyTrack: -24 White Noise: 1 Wave: 3
Inv Phase: 1 Pulse Width: 07 Dest: F2 Dest Waveform: A Amp Level: 50%
Source 1: M1 Amount: 9 Source 2: M2 Amount: 4 Source 3: E2 Amount: 4 Source 4: E2 Amount: 5

...etc.

{Maybe in color

Of course you'd have to turn off word wrap}

[AdmiralQuality]

Hey, that looks just like my ESQ-1's interface!

[shamann]

As the GUI issue has resurfaced recently, I'd like to take this opportunity to give this thread a fine old bump.

[Chris Walton]

I didn't read the thread but I shall make a great argument.

The OP mentioned ABL Pro. Well, let me show you a screenshot of ABL Pro (which I happen to own and LOVE) on my setup:



As you can see, there is more than enough space to see the ABL gui as well as several other things beside. You might notice that I run a 1280x768 resolution. That's a bit wider than average, which is 1024x768.

Let's load up Poly-Ana:



Whoops?! I can't see half the GUI! Fortunately, my Host recently implemented functionality to detach the plugin window from the main window, so lets enable that:



Whoops!? Still can't see some of the important stuff, like Detune, or Polyphony! Maybe if that damn keyboard wasn't there (who still doesn't have a MIDI controller? Or at least a host with a piano roll preview?) ...

Well, I'll hide the taskbar:



I still can't see the entire GUI, but at least I have access to all of the 185 controls.

However, it comes at a price. I no longer see my Taskbar (which I love having), and I can no longer see my host's transport and CPU controls.

Please, make a smaller GUI.

Two other things:

(1) The sound. Not bad but I'm far from impressed.

(2) You're a lying bastard. But at least now I know how your oscillators work (welcome to the year 2000, eh?). I will comfort you and say that yes, BLEP is possible, although a teensy bit tricky.

[shamann]

Pfft, I scoff at your provincial notions of usability and ergonomics.

This is synth fetish, man! (you would have been well-served to read, live, know, love the original rant)

[farlukar]

*cough*

[Chris Walton]

Pfft, I scoff at your provincial notions of usability and ergonomics.

This is synth fetish, man! (you would have been well-served to read, live, know, love the original rant)

I just briefly browsed over it and saw "I like it" and "I'm hard on ABL Pro"

anyway, let me read the original post in full ...


...


!

*cough*

[coops2]

(2) You're a lying bastard. But at least now I know how your oscillators work (welcome to the year 2000, eh?). I will comfort you and say that yes, BLEP is possible, although a teensy bit tricky.

Please elaborate about the oscillators

[Chris Walton]

read the readme

[jplanet]

I fell in love with the sound on the demo, but too many aspects of the GUI made it stressful to program. I was on my way to having a few good patches, but had to take too many breaks to rest my eyes to keep a cohesive train of thought.

Putting the panel on a normal "tilt", IMHO, would have made it a pleasure to program...I think I really would have bought it if not for the GUI.