KVR Audio

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:12 pm

Note: crap, I meant to put this in the hardware forum sorry

Hey folks, I just today bought my ADAM A7s which are amazing to say the least, I'm blown away by them. If anyone has any questions about these monitors, I'd be happy to answer them.

I have two questions...

1) The volume knobs on these babies use knobs with click stops. It seems that at one of the lower positions (only 4 clicks from minus infinity), one speaker is slightly louder than the other (around 1 db). Should I be worried about this or is it usual that at lower levels, there is less accuracy in level ? At other clicks, the speakers seem to be of equal volume.

2) Apart from using my Layla3G audio control panel, is there an easy way to control volume of both speakers ? Do most people use a mixer between the speakers ? Is there some neat little device I can use to control level of my monitors ? The volume knob on the ADAM isn't extremely fine in the lower range of the volume levels so I can't really use those controls to control my level. It jumps pretty significantly on the 4th click (which is also where I have problem number 1).

Huge thanks in advance for your help
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BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:50 pm

Clicks on pots are annoying indeed. Behringer employs them for example. It makes fine adjustments like you need impossible. If there's only inaccuracy at one click position and you don't need that position often then don't worry. Otherwise you may check other units (if possible)

Normally the volume pots on monitors themselves are only used to set the rough (maximum) volume. Since you have two of them it's a hassle to adjust frequently. So either use a mixer or your soundcard's control panel indeed. Even a stereo pot in a box can do fine (although isn't the best solution)

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:43 pm

BertKoor wrote:Clicks on pots are annoying indeed. Behringer employs them for example. It makes fine adjustments like you need impossible. If there's only inaccuracy at one click position and you don't need that position often then don't worry. Otherwise you may check other units (if possible)

Normally the volume pots on monitors themselves are only used to set the rough (maximum) volume. Since you have two of them it's a hassle to adjust frequently. So either use a mixer or your soundcard's control panel indeed. Even a stereo pot in a box can do fine (although isn't the best solution)

Hey thanks, you have confirmed what I was thinking. I set the volume on these speakers to the max volume I'd ever need.

I will admit that the one thing that kicks ass about the ADAMs is that the volume control and power button are on the front of the speaker which most others didn't have (not quite sure why other manufacturers don't do this).

I have a small Behringer mixer which I'm not using, do you think that I will lose quality by running my sound through it ?

I had bought an MX602A which has balanced inputs but an unbalanced output

Here's the page

http://www.behringer.com/MX602A/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Looks like I'll need to buy myself a Mackie, which I can use the pres on too since my Layla3G pres suck.

Cheers
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BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:12 am

It will work with the Behringer mixer.
Unbalanced connections are not often needed in a home setup. I did some tests and couldn't measure any difference between balanced and unbalanced.

Having a better mixer with good preamps is always nice...

z15 · Post by **z15** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:22 am

i've understood layla sounds pretty damn good, ditto adams, behringer not good at all. call me snobby or prejudiced but i wouldn't run anything through that mixer when the other components are of that good quality. especially not the monitor signal. it will work but it will most probably sound a lot worse than running it straight without the mixer.

if the budget is an issue, together with sound quality, i would personally choose the "stereo pot in a box"-option, aka a passive attenuator. a device you can just lower the volume with, that simple. i'm using sm pro audio m-patch2 myself which is about 100 euros and it rocks for what i'm using it for. other possible cheap options would be sm pro audio's nanopatch (probably the cheapest), nht pvc, a designs atty, or buying a high quality stereo pot, a little metal box and doing some soldering and metalwork yourself (if you're adventurous and have too much time in your hands).

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:24 pm

Hey thanks for your help. I am actually running it through the Behringer at the moment and in all honesty, it sounds absolutely sweet. I A/Bed it with a direct connection from the Layla. But, I may invest in something like a Mackie Big Knob in the near future just to be sure that I am not losing any quality.

The ADAMs indeed sound unbelievable. By far the best high end I have ever heard from any speaker and the imaging is stunning to say the least.

Cheers
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PaulG · Post by **PaulG** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:49 pm

When I had a similar MX mixer I ran it through also, but I found that it was coloring the sound in ways that removing it from the chain wasn't.

You'll like having a Big Knob just due to the fact that you can have three different monitor outputs. You could even use a computer speaker like Charles Dye does and a boom box or home stereo for the other to check on multiple sound systems once you have a decent mix. Though believe it or not Charles Dye STARTS with the lousy computer speaker, and uses only one. (Thought being that if he can get a good rough idea here, it oughta sound good on the bigger and more detailed stuff, too.)

Just a thought.

Stick with your mixer if you're happy with it.

ezza · Post by **ezza** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:33 pm

You could try an SM Pro M-Patch2.

It has only basic features, but clean signal path. I have one and I am very happy with it. Also very reasonably priced.

http://www.thomann.de/thoiw7_sm_pro_aud ... dinfo.html

(To solve problem 2!)

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:11 pm

Thanks fellas, I actually do like the Patch2, I just wish both inputs were balanced. I have a Roland RD-600 which I want to be able to play without turning the PC on. I guess I Could just run it through the unbalanced cables, probably wouldn't make much of a difference.

Well, the main reason I am using my MX mixer is because I would have sold it for like, 40 $ if I was lucky, and I paid over 200$ for it so I felt like it was a bit of a waste. But, I'm certainly not a fan of Behringer or anything

What do you guys think of the Samson C-Control, some say yay, some say nay, it has all the features I need, whatdya think ?

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Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:25 pm

Your wish is my command. Moved to Hardware.

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:35 pm

thanks Meffy

Chuck E. Jesus · Post by **Chuck E. Jesus** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:19 am

i think it's best to keep the monitors at full level and feed them with a dedicated monitor send control...i have a little mackie 1202, i like it better than my old CR1604 for that reason (amongst others)...i think you are on the right track with the Big Knob or similar...a long time ago, a dude and me were having a noise jam on the schools portable sound system, and the trimpots on the front of the speakers were turned rather low...well, we were trying to be all industrial and stuff and cranked the volume, and the speakers literally started smoking (at the trimpot level controls)...kinda never did that again...every engineer dude i talked to said keep your amps full up (self powered monitors included), and adjust the signal send...

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:07 am

Thanks Chuck, my only issue is that the Big Knob is about 1/3rd the price of my speakers, for that sorta money, I'd rather put it towards a UAD1 or sound absorbing material. I really wish that Mackie would create a more cut down version of the Big Knob since I wouldn't use half the features on it.

I never expected such simple devices to be so darn expensive.

The Samson C-Control has all the features I need at a good price, but I don't trust the brand. I don't want to make the same mistake as my Behringer and buy lower end gear again.

cheers
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fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:14 am

Well I did some extensive analysis on my Behringer. I tried a loopback record test with and without the Behringer mixer in between. The result was that the Behringer did colour the sound slightly in the high end.

Here's a graph showing exactly what the Behringer did the original sound...

So we have a reduction in the highs at around -0.6db up at 22 kHz.

Now ... for a pretty smooth reduction in the highs (almost looks like a soft shelf filter), is it worth the extra cash ? I think I'd go for a passive volume knob if anything.

What are your thoughts ?

Over at GearSlutz they are saying that the Mackie device colours the sound ... can one ever win ? They are talking about 400$ for something with volume adjustment ! JEBUS !

The noise floor was identical in both samples so it is purely a HF loss problem. I can provide WAV samples of both recordings in case anyone is interested.

Cheers
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BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:35 am

You have measured the freq response and noise floor, but not yet the harmonic distortion. I find the RightMark Audio Analyser a great tool for this: http://audio.rightmark.org/manifest.shtml
Just run the external loopback test with and without the mixer in the chain, and RMAA can do the comparison for you.

If the Behringer mixer works for you and you're happy with the quality, then who are we to argue

Volume level on studio monitors (monitor owners please help)