KVR Audio

liqih · Post by **liqih** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:49 pm

take your time jakob, you did a great job, <grin>

jakob · Post by **jakob** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:19 pm

Hehe, the only problem is bringing this from the blues piano bar to the blues philharmonic hall...

clueless · Post by **clueless** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:58 pm

It's finally clicked with me how to work my 8-buss desk thingy, so I'm going to unleash my defective out-of-tune hardware on this over the weekend.

jakob · Post by **jakob** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:03 am

To keep you guys busy, here is an intermediate mash-up of the different parts. Still lacks a lot of detail, but I have a basic structure down.

I have asked superb artist Jeff Caylor to sing the lyrics for us. He has replied, but he's pretty busy - so keep your fingers crossed that he will make it!

Have a listen: http://jakob.magiera.net/sound/kvr_blue ... ediate.mp3

Cheers

Jakob

Psy-T · Post by **Psy-T** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:42 am

love it jakob!

zeoy · Post by **zeoy** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:45 am

very good job so far.
some nasty clicks in some parts though

clueless · Post by **clueless** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:51 am

Not everything in this works/gels, but there's a lot of fun stuff in here.

The vocals remind me of "Red Hot Indians" (Can). They're incongruous, but in a good way. (i.e. far better than if they were seamlessly generic)

Drums have no attitude though. A bit...'puny', Jakob?...

But whoever did what sounds like (but probably isn't) a Moog solo (maybe some sort of Clav simulation squeezed through the nastiest cheapest-possible-sounding auto-wah?), starting at 02:57...

clueless · Post by **clueless** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:55 am

The other thing is, as the piano is the basis for the whole thing - whilst I understand you're basically stuck with your original loop - it's a shame it doesn't change pace, and switch to a more (or less) propulsive double(or half)-time riff.

jakob · Post by **jakob** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:15 am

Thanks for the feedback, guys - yeah, I have a long way to go. I'm also not very happy with the drums. Just now discovered REX2 support of XT2 so I might make use of some free loops or so unless I manage to produce something better. OTOH, I think it's good that the drums are very much in the background. At one point I turned them up a bit and it just didn't sound right. But they could use more improvisation... anybody got jamstix or so

Oh, and the piano, yeah... hm... if only I wasn't so lousy at improvising, you all own me at improvising. I'll try a bit more varation, though... Variation is good, always...

Oh, and that solo is some strange VST called gallstone, which is made out of radioactive waste or so...

Can you tell me where you heard clicks? Maybe it was just the glasses clinging in the bar, you know?

jakob · Post by **jakob** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:28 am

Could you all give me some more specific feedback on the parts that you find weak? Here are some question marks for me:
- does the part with clav and guitar "exchanging" arpeggios (at the beginning) work for you (I really like it)?
- is the first hammond sound ok?
- does the change to the different drum loop (right when the gallstone enters) at the beginning work? Did you notice I distorted the piano, how do you like that?
- How can I better integrate the hammond solo (I found it has a bit too much reverb on it, but the sample came that way)?

clueless · Post by **clueless** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:33 am

jakob wrote:At one point I turned them up a bit and it just didn't sound right.

because they're too clean/pristine/stiff. sounds like the 'drummer' is wincing at the thought of the sound of the stick hitting the drum.

jakob wrote:But they could use more improvisation... anybody got jamstix or so

yep. got an authentic dirty drummer person in here somewhere too.

jakob wrote:Oh, and the piano, yeah... hm... if only I wasn't so lousy at improvising

it's not even that. if anything, the piano is the backbone of this, so too much freestyling would pull the rug out from under it (although a few highlighted bars of letting rip would be good).

jakob wrote:Variation is good, always...

unless it isn't. But then, McDonalds...

"gallstone"???

was it you playing that??

jakob · Post by **jakob** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:37 am

clueless wrote: "gallstone"???

was it you playing that??

No kidding, but, like I said, I'm no good at improvising. Ask master sonarman!

Btw, you're welcome to lay down some drum tracks! But, you know, the more I listen to it, the more I like the fact that the "drummer" is holding back - giving the stage to the other instrumentalists. Just my opinion. Others?

clueless · Post by **clueless** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:44 am

he/she/it can hold back, fine*, but the actual sound and feel is wrong. Sounds like a metronomic bedroom-studio VST digitally overdubbed onto a beer-sweating vibe-stuffed tape bootleg of a live gig.

*although, if the drummer beat the shit out of his kit, it'd also be okay.

knype · Post by **knype** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:27 am

When you first posted this collaboration, jakob, I eagerly awaited the end result. But by your own standards, and I refer to the jazz collaboration you did some time ago, this blues collaboration, in its present form, is something of a disappointment.

I liked the concept of trying to make out that it was a live gig but what followed was anything but "live" and certainly did not resembles the blues I have been listening to over the years. It was too clinical, too precise and devoid of any feeling or emotion; in fact, the very antithesis of what the blues is all about.

The piano is too prominent and after a minute or so became so repetitious as to be annoying. As someone else said, you need to break out from the shackles of that loop. With your talent, I am sure you could have given us a good solo to break the monotony. Maybe the guitar should take the burden of providing the rhythm, thereby leaving the piano to embellish with bluesy phrases at a higher register.

The tempo seemed too fast and didn't have that shuffle feel that characterizes the blues; as a consequence, the various soloists seemed somewhat constrained by the structure laid down for them.

Now, I don't whether it is my PC speakers but I couldn't hear a pounding bass, the bedrock of any good blues track.

The Hammond solos might have been good if they hadn't been buried so deep in the mix. They should have been given the same prominence as the harmonica solo, which did capture something of the essence of the blues. Full marks to whoever made that contribution.

I also liked the guitar solo at 3:54 but there needed to be a few more sustained notes and bending of strings to give it a bluesy feel, check out Hendrix, Jeff Beck, Clapton, B.B. King, Freddie King, Albert King, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Albert Collins, Roy Buchanan and Buddy Guy to name but a few. I would also space out the guitar solos to keep the listener's interest.

The Clavinet and guitar did nothing for me and the same goes for that god-awful instrument that comes in at 2:55.

The change in the drum loop also doesn't work in my opinion. The essence of blues drumming is constancy. I also share the comments made by clueless about the drum track in general.

There is no denying that there is some good musicianship on display here but for me it doesn't create, at the moment, the feel of what I would call the blues.

jakob · Post by **jakob** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:55 am

Hey knipe, that was some well-thought out feedback, thank you! I suppose that's what you get when you choose a title that carries memories and emotions for some!

The most significant of your statements is probably that this song doesn't create a blues feel for you. Yeah, I agree. It's way too fast for that. My only answer is: the song feels like it's supposed to feel, but I probably shouldn't have called it a blues. I know that wasn't particularly smart of me, but hey, the KVR Funk wasn't really a funk either, was it?

I'm not sure what to do about the Hammond solo. I think I'm gonna ask liqih to send me the files without reverb. It just doesn't fit well with the rest this way, that's why I kind of "hid" it at this point.

As for the piano, I went ahead and recorded a few alternative loops so as to make it feel less repetitive. I'd looooove for a guitarist keyboardist or whatever to help me out and do a couple of takes just playing the chords and keeping the rhythm going.

Drumming: constancy. Argh, how to do that without becoming repetitive? I mean, the drum track is very constant, isn't it?

Can someone be my savior and just record some proper drums?

As far as "clinical" and "precise". I must say, I disagree. There are so many notes that are off here, all that background noise and such that I feel it does sound quite "live". But hey, I probably haven't listened to the same music as you.

*edit*
oh, there is a bass, maybe I need to turn it up a bit.

All right, hoping for some more help on this (esp. some foundational rhythmic support, from whatever instrument).

Thanks guys!

Collab: KVR Blues! <update> 2nd beta mix!