KVR Audio

zeoy · Post by **zeoy** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:11 pm

OK, let's be more specific
*0:22-0:27 first appearance of nasty crackles

*0:49-0:50 the guitar riff is very good for the style but it's rhythmically very loose at the turnaround

*2:29 tapping gtr+FX=harsh sound. I like the idea of applying some effect here but I think that a) it's very soon for this kind of stuff and b) the harsh sound destroys the feeling

*2:55 VERY GOOD PLAYING (whoever you are you got some kbd skills boy)

*3:54 there goes my part: crack fest and harsh unnatural sound. checked the files I sent you and they were not like that. I don't think they needed something besides slight EQ+comp+ whatever reverb you use

*5:00 onwards : crackles!!!

*5:49: the same

*I like the vocals in a strange way but the hammond behind them doesn't fit the blues scales

*ending comes very unnatural

I admit that mixing all this stuff is very hard that's why my "very good job so far" in my previous post

@knype: glad you like the solo. I decided not to go to a straight blues playing (although I love all the players you mentioned) since I felt that the tune called for something more straight rhythmically

EDIT: forgot to mention the excelent blues harp soli

clueless · Post by **clueless** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:39 pm

jakob wrote:All right, hoping for some more help on this (esp. some foundational rhythmic support, from whatever instrument).

I have a few spare hours tonight, I'll have a go on organ, clavinet, rhodes (I'd prefer to stick with piano really, but I don't have anything like a decent controller keyboard), guitars and bass (all real ones). If I can get anything usable out of that lot I'll send it to you.

sonarman · Post by **sonarman** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:41 pm

Hey Jakob! Thanks for posting a first mix.

Just want to defend my Gallstone solo, this is a kind of KVR joke. Gallstone was created by Gregjazz as a spoof of Milestone. He didn't expect anyone to actually use it!
Its a live solo and I think it's as valid as synth based solo on the track.
Let's face it, synths aren't really suited to blues. Strangley enough, I prefer the Gallstone solo to the harp.

I think its too late in the day to criticise the structure of the song. Sure, it aint 12 bar but, then again, John Lee Hooker couldn't play 12 bar blues to save his life.

I'd like to hear the bass a bit louder - it should give the track a funkier feel. And, yes, the drums need a re-think.

But hey! This is just a bit of fun, right? Since when has blues ever been about production values?

clueless · Post by **clueless** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:46 pm

Interesting you should mention the synth solo, blues, and then John Lee Hooker, as knype's comments about it being 'godawful' and non-bluesy had me thinking of JLH's Free Beer and Chicken album, which has moogs, clavinets and general funkiness all over it - and it works. :shrugs:

Psy-T · Post by **Psy-T** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:47 pm

i'd love to help with the drums, but mine wouldn't fit, i synthesize my drums and use em on house music and such. worlds apart really.

could anyone please link me to the previous collaboration threads? i'd love to see how they went, and a google search didn't provide much help.

sonarman · Post by **sonarman** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:40 pm

knype (or anyone else) - If you want to collab on a more conventional Blues then I'm more than happy to help.
Let us know if you're interested.

jakob · Post by **jakob** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:43 pm

The other collabs are linked to in the 1st post of this thread.

gsoto · Post by **gsoto** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:35 pm

Well, this is more "funky" than "bluesy" for me. Actually, I don't see many resemblances to any form of traditional blues in the tune, except for the chord progression at certain level (and the harp

).
Maybe the problem was calling it "blues"; could be something like "bar jam"?

The first technical problem I see in the mix is some nasty clipping all over the place (at least in the mp3).

"- does the part with clav and guitar "exchanging" arpeggios (at the beginning) work for you (I really like it)?"
I can't be objective here; at this moment it sounds strange to me, but it's because it's not the way I intended my solo to work (edit: my original test mix). So, no comments by now, except that maybe the chorus in the clavinet is a little too heavy (what about loosing it?

).
By the way, and I'm glad that you muted the crapiest seconds of that solo.

"- is the first hammond sound ok?"
The one that starts with the gallstone solo? I think it's ok, the tone is similar to the other hammond, but the volume is _too_ low.

"- does the change to the different drum loop (right when the gallstone enters) at the beginning work? Did you notice I distorted the piano, how do you like that?"
I think it works, it's like the "funny" part of the song. On the other hand, the "live" feeling gets lost a little.
The gallstone solo is pretty nice, in a weird way.

"- How can I better integrate the hammond solo (I found it has a bit too much reverb on it, but the sample came that way)?"
Maybe liqih could upload it without the reverb. I don't think the reverb is that bad though, I read it as part of the instrument itself and not as a room/physical space reverb.
Looks like the track is out of place, too.

As for the drums, I think that they are acceptable, but they can be improved for sure. I would go for a funky dirty feeling, but there's always the problem of them eating too much space.
I would really restrict liqih's drum loop to the gallstone solo, making it the "weird/crazy" part. The loop is not bad but it doesn't work as a fundation for the song in my opinion.

Psy-T's vocals are very low in volume. I think that they are bad, but in a good way. I would try bringing them to the front.

Zeoy's guitar solo wins for me; regardless of the guitar tone, which is not my favorite.

Good work so far, Jakob. And remember that the main goal here is to have fun.

liqih · Post by **liqih** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:55 am

just cheked the mp3,

not bad, but it sounds like a collage of samples, which could be a feature a la Blue Note remix,

on the other side for a live sound I agree with the previous comments many of you wrote:

- hard to be blues without swing
- static & repetitive drums and piano
- uneven volumes (high guitars, low Hammond, <wink>)

more about swing and groove: I realize, Jakob, that you have a hard time to mix all these solos, each of them with a different
timing intention,

jakob · Post by **jakob** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:26 am

Thank you all for the detailed comments. These will really help me as I revisit the tune. I just want to stress again that this is a really rough mix, so it's no wonder that so many of you had complaints.

As for the blues... I will keep the title "KVR Blues" for now for marketing purposes

I might rename the final MP3 to "piano bar thingamajing" or so.

As for the crackles: yeah, I hear them now, but please forgive me if I wait with fixing such things until the mastering session. I don't want to worry about optimal volume levels just yet.

zeoy, I only applied some eq-ing to the wah-solo, but I admit to adding some amp simulation to the clean solo. Is that the one that bothered you? I'll revisit

jakob · Post by **jakob** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:08 pm

Hey, new hope at the horizon for the drums. Once I figured out what REX is (which energyXT2 now supports!) and that there are tons of free loops available, I downloaded some stuff that might be useful for the track. This loop is not bad, I hope I can slice it up enough to bring in some variation, but I find it sounds pretty good:

http://jakob.magiera.net/sound/kvr_blue ... sample.mp3

Oh, and any pointers to good free REX drum loops suited for this project would be much appreciated.

gsoto · Post by **gsoto** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:47 pm

Much better in the "feeling". I'm not a fan of the snare sound though, and I miss some aggressiveness.

andy_asshole · Post by **andy_asshole** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:33 pm

Do you have any room for another guitarist?

jakob · Post by **jakob** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:58 pm

andy, sure! What I would most need is actually not so much a solo but just going through the chords emphasizing rhythm (you know, a guitar backup track). Would you be willing to do that? Of course, you can also do a solo if you want.

jakob · Post by **jakob** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:56 am

Hey, it's not even a month and I was able to revisit the KVR blues! That's quite an achievement for me (2nd child was born 2 weeks ago)!

So, I've mainly tackled the nasty drum track. I finally settled for using the Addictive Drums demo (once again), I was frustrated enough to almost buy the full version, haha! Thankfully, the demo also comes with midi loops that fit this song. Now, I don't want to hear any more complaints about the drums, ok? They are fiiiine, just fiiine (say it with me: fiiiiiiine). Errm... ok, so if you want them up or down in the mix, just tell me, but no more "they sound weak/puny", please, unless you are going to provide me with a drum track yourself.

(legal notice: lots of irony in here)

I hope I was able to eliminate all the clicks as well. Hmm, let's see, what else did I do? Just smoothing out a few edges here and there and attempting a proper ending.

Ah, yes, of course, I actually went through the trouble of recording a few piano loops and solos. I hope the solo turned out OK, you won't believe how much cutting and shifting of audio clips I had to do in order for it to sound half on time.

So, here is the first beta.

http://jakob.magiera.net/sound/kvr_blues_beta.mp3

Jakob

*edit*
Oh, I'm afraid the wonderful lyrics won't be included unless somebody offers to sing them. I couldn't get Jeff Caylor unfortunately.

Collab: KVR Blues! <update> 2nd beta mix!