FR Theme: Audio Track, Parts & Editor
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- KVRAF
- 4143 posts since 7 Sep, 2001 from Melbourne, Australia
Ack - you must have created this thread while I was in the middle of creating mine - please delete my previous thread.
The audio parts/editing is coming on quite a bit, but I think we have a real opportunity to make XT2 powerful in all sorts off ways for advanced audio manipulation.
1) I would like to see a return of multi-channel audio parts. Creating a new channel within a part whould be as simple as dragging a current part downwards and there you go. You should even be able to drag a wav file from the browser into the part and create a new channel etc.. Nice and easy should be the way.
2) And I would like these multiple channels to have (if required) separate audio outputs.
This may be a little problematic from a programming point of view - I'm not sure. But what I was thinking is that it could retain it's 1 track per 1 channel in the mixer and you would be able to "explode" that into a sub-mixer of the multiple channels. You could even dock this separately.
To tell you the truth, this functionality for folder tracks might also be interesting as an option - but I'll stick to the audio parts now.
3) The audio files within the audio part should have fade-in/fade-out controls and it would be nice to have some really intuitive click-drag editing like the fades, "slip editing" - is that what it's called?
4) The whole lot can then be saved as an XTC so you don't just get another rex2-like format, you get something that is ready for different treatment of kicks, snares, hats.
5) I'm all for the idea of dragging an audio part into the sampler and/or the drum track and automatically creating XTS files from the data.
6) I think there should be on the right-click menu the option to render and replace or render and overlay a given part (this could be something for midi/drum parts as well) rather than having to set up the loop selector and muting other tracks and using the render to new track.
7) Each chunk in an audio part should be able to get the advanced edit treatment by being sent to an external audio editor - maybe by double-clicking the chunk or via right-click menu?
There's probably more things I'll think of here, but I just love the promise of the audio part and what it can do now that I couldn't resist sharing a "vision" of how they could evolve.
Regards
Caleb
The audio parts/editing is coming on quite a bit, but I think we have a real opportunity to make XT2 powerful in all sorts off ways for advanced audio manipulation.
1) I would like to see a return of multi-channel audio parts. Creating a new channel within a part whould be as simple as dragging a current part downwards and there you go. You should even be able to drag a wav file from the browser into the part and create a new channel etc.. Nice and easy should be the way.
2) And I would like these multiple channels to have (if required) separate audio outputs.
This may be a little problematic from a programming point of view - I'm not sure. But what I was thinking is that it could retain it's 1 track per 1 channel in the mixer and you would be able to "explode" that into a sub-mixer of the multiple channels. You could even dock this separately.
To tell you the truth, this functionality for folder tracks might also be interesting as an option - but I'll stick to the audio parts now.
3) The audio files within the audio part should have fade-in/fade-out controls and it would be nice to have some really intuitive click-drag editing like the fades, "slip editing" - is that what it's called?
4) The whole lot can then be saved as an XTC so you don't just get another rex2-like format, you get something that is ready for different treatment of kicks, snares, hats.
5) I'm all for the idea of dragging an audio part into the sampler and/or the drum track and automatically creating XTS files from the data.
6) I think there should be on the right-click menu the option to render and replace or render and overlay a given part (this could be something for midi/drum parts as well) rather than having to set up the loop selector and muting other tracks and using the render to new track.
7) Each chunk in an audio part should be able to get the advanced edit treatment by being sent to an external audio editor - maybe by double-clicking the chunk or via right-click menu?
There's probably more things I'll think of here, but I just love the promise of the audio part and what it can do now that I couldn't resist sharing a "vision" of how they could evolve.
Regards
Caleb
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.
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- KVRAF
- 5350 posts since 8 Aug, 2003 from Berlin Germany
-I love that I can manipulate audio so much but I really think that the "mode" should only apply to what happens to a sample when its clip is stretched. You should be able to stretch, pitch shift and resize any sample using the object bar and/or a special drag for each action.
Then when you stretch a clip (or change tempo) the mode determines how the audio changes size. When a clips is stretched a "normal" clip will not resize, a "stretched" clip will stretch to the new size and a "resample" clip will resample to the new size. All clips will start at the same relative position in the clip.
e.g.
You have a 4 beat clip that starts on beat 0 has a "stretch" mode sample1 on beat 1, a "normal" sample2 on beat 2, and a "repitch" sample3 on beat 3.
If you stretch the clip to 8 beats you should get sample1 twice as long starting on beat 2, sample2 same length on beat 4, and sample3 with half the pitch on beat 6.
-Also, if I slice a clip I should be able to resize both parts in either direction and still access that data from before they were sliced. So if I cut a clip in half I can resize the beginning of the latter half and get the original beginning. Only the clip size should change not the material.
-Samples (and drum pads) should have a "decay" property that fades out the sample. This is useful in audio for drums and stabs.
-Setting length, pitch and decay should all work relative to a sample's settings when a user selects many samples at once.
-The old audio editor with separate track was useful too for loop recording and for better seeing drum hits.
Then when you stretch a clip (or change tempo) the mode determines how the audio changes size. When a clips is stretched a "normal" clip will not resize, a "stretched" clip will stretch to the new size and a "resample" clip will resample to the new size. All clips will start at the same relative position in the clip.
e.g.
You have a 4 beat clip that starts on beat 0 has a "stretch" mode sample1 on beat 1, a "normal" sample2 on beat 2, and a "repitch" sample3 on beat 3.
If you stretch the clip to 8 beats you should get sample1 twice as long starting on beat 2, sample2 same length on beat 4, and sample3 with half the pitch on beat 6.
-Also, if I slice a clip I should be able to resize both parts in either direction and still access that data from before they were sliced. So if I cut a clip in half I can resize the beginning of the latter half and get the original beginning. Only the clip size should change not the material.
-Samples (and drum pads) should have a "decay" property that fades out the sample. This is useful in audio for drums and stabs.
-Setting length, pitch and decay should all work relative to a sample's settings when a user selects many samples at once.
-The old audio editor with separate track was useful too for loop recording and for better seeing drum hits.
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- KVRist
- 411 posts since 6 Jul, 2004 from Richmond, TX
I posted this in another thread, I'll move it here because it was kinda off topic for the other thread:
Ok, so think back to XT1.4.
Think of the way audio was done: Each sample had parameters like pan and volume and pitch coarse, pitch fine, and fade in fade out. But then, the lane that the sample sat in also had volume and pan, next to it's mute/solo buttons. (Going further, the sequencer track that the entire audio clip sat in also had pan and volume, but let's focus on the audio clip.)
This is how it should work: No different kinds of samples. Each sample has these parameters when you click on it:
Vol
Pan
FadeIn
FadeOut
Pitch: Coarse/Fine/Superfine (Can we get superfine please?)
Repitch: Coarse/Fine/Superfine
Stretch: CoarsePercent/FinePercent/SuperfinePercent.
Now, just like in XT1.4, each audio lane should also have these same parameters, that would be applied as offsets to the samples in that lane. If a sample had a Pitch of +3, and the lane had a pitch of +4, then the sample would play at +7 (the sample's pitch plus the offset.)
Also, position should be lockable as an absolute lock or as a relative-to-previous-sample lock.
Imagine one measure of 16th notes:
|A...|B...|C...|D...| (A-D are samples being placed on 1,2,3,4.)
Imagine that I set the audio lane's Stretch CoarsePercent to +100% (Double length) OR if I set the lane's Pitch Coarse to -12 (Double length and octave lower) OR if I set Stretch to 50% and Pitch to -6 (Double lenght and pitch six lower, y'all get the picture).
Now, with absolute lock, the measure would look like this:
|AA..|BB..|CC..|DD..|
Basically, AA is A, twice as long, but not being moved, BB still starts on beat 2. The increased length of AA doesn't push BB further along.
Here's what it would look like with relative positioning turned on:
AA..|.BB.|..CC|C...| (D would cut into the next measure)
And the D would wrap to the next bar. See? The distance between the samples remains constant.
Get it?
Soma, I know you get it, yeah?
FREE MUSIC NO MONEY DOWN
http://joeyhoney.blogspot.com/
http://joeyhoney.blogspot.com/
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- KVRist
- 411 posts since 6 Jul, 2004 from Richmond, TX
ABSOLUTELY YES. This is intuitive, exactly as it should be. To add a bit to your suggestion, samples that have either "Stretch mode" or "Pitch mode" selected should have a little "pin" or dot or something at the very end of the sample, that way you could quickly see which samples would be "pinned down" on their ends. Maybe a green dot could mean stretch mode, a red dot for pitch mode.-I love that I can manipulate audio so much but I really think that the "mode" should only apply to what happens to a sample when its clip is stretched.
Going even further, an option to pin down a sample at ANY point would be cool, I think Ableton Live does this?
(To make my terminology clear, by "Pitch" I mean just oldschool 1.4 style pitch change, where both the pitch and length of the sample changes. "Repitch", to me, means the new-style non-tempo changing pitch-change.)
FREE MUSIC NO MONEY DOWN
http://joeyhoney.blogspot.com/
http://joeyhoney.blogspot.com/
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- KVRAF
- 1601 posts since 24 Jun, 2004 from Australia
This would be great! Like a sample grid where you can stretch sections of a wave without breaking it up into different clips.bengeorge wrote:Going even further, an option to pin down a sample at ANY point would be cool, I think Ableton Live does this?
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- KVRAF
- 5350 posts since 8 Aug, 2003 from Berlin Germany
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- KVRian
- 852 posts since 28 Oct, 2004
REALLY appreciate this thread.. the audio tracks do need some serious work atm! 
I like the idea of dragging an xtc clip into the sampler so it would automatically "render" the xtc into a sample (and if it could beat-split it too... man the possibilities!!!)
Two suggestions:
Threat all audio clips as multi-clip + multi-channel audio parts
So when dropping an audio clip onto an audio track it is automatically contained by a sub-channel with a dedicated out (available to the mixer). This sub channel out is like any dedicated channel in the mixer, but by default routed to the audio track channel
Note: This is very much like the xt1 audio track, but with smarter gluing & copying and much more integrated the xt2 mixer.
So you have for each audio track:
And for each audio clip:
With this way it would be easy to glue audio clips on the same track together (since it's the clip track #'s output that defines the real audio output to use, and it is set in the mixer "outside" the audio track so it's independent of what the clip contains)
Copying an audio clip from another audio track would let you select if you want to add "new" sub channels or use the ones already set up for the destination audio track
Using this way you can easily create loops, effects, layers, drum patterns, while not losing any of the simplicity and functionality of a basic no-frills audio track (i.e. one where you just dump a sample and expect it to play)
So a clip would be like a folder with it's own tracks, these tracks are locked to an output (specified inside the clip) and a single output can have as many clip tracks as you want (so you can have the same drum sample on three tracks inside the clip, each track could be routed to the main audio track out (default) or the 1-n sub channels that also defaults to the main audio track out)
Clip-Based envelope Points
I like xt1's audio "editing" window where you can define your own envelope points. If this would be implemented in xt2 I would like it to work like this:
1. Individual envelope points for each clip
2. Envelope points are relative to sample length (no need to loose all that hard work if you want to swap a sample)
3. When stretching samples make envelope points move with the clip size (no need to anything serious since they are relative anyway) however holding a modifier key (like shift, alt etc.) will hold the envelope points so they do not move
I like the idea of dragging an xtc clip into the sampler so it would automatically "render" the xtc into a sample (and if it could beat-split it too... man the possibilities!!!)
Two suggestions:
Threat all audio clips as multi-clip + multi-channel audio parts
So when dropping an audio clip onto an audio track it is automatically contained by a sub-channel with a dedicated out (available to the mixer). This sub channel out is like any dedicated channel in the mixer, but by default routed to the audio track channel
Note: This is very much like the xt1 audio track, but with smarter gluing & copying and much more integrated the xt2 mixer.
So you have for each audio track:
Code: Select all
[Main Audio Channel - visible in Mixer]
[Sub Channel #1 -> by default mixed to the Main Audio Channel - visible in Mixer if created]
[Sub Channel #. -> by default mixed into the Main Audio Channel - visible in Mixer if created]
[Sub Channel #n -> by default mixed into the Main Audio Channel - visible in Mixer if created]
Code: Select all
[Clip Track #1, routed to the Main Audio Channel to Sub Channel #1 or #. or #n ]
[Clip Track #., routed to the Main Audio Channel to Sub Channel #1 or #. or #n ]
[Clip Track #n, routed to the Main Audio Channel to Sub Channel #1 or #. or #n ]
Copying an audio clip from another audio track would let you select if you want to add "new" sub channels or use the ones already set up for the destination audio track
Using this way you can easily create loops, effects, layers, drum patterns, while not losing any of the simplicity and functionality of a basic no-frills audio track (i.e. one where you just dump a sample and expect it to play)
So a clip would be like a folder with it's own tracks, these tracks are locked to an output (specified inside the clip) and a single output can have as many clip tracks as you want (so you can have the same drum sample on three tracks inside the clip, each track could be routed to the main audio track out (default) or the 1-n sub channels that also defaults to the main audio track out)
Clip-Based envelope Points
I like xt1's audio "editing" window where you can define your own envelope points. If this would be implemented in xt2 I would like it to work like this:
1. Individual envelope points for each clip
2. Envelope points are relative to sample length (no need to loose all that hard work if you want to swap a sample)
3. When stretching samples make envelope points move with the clip size (no need to anything serious since they are relative anyway) however holding a modifier key (like shift, alt etc.) will hold the envelope points so they do not move
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 10366 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK
Import ACIDized wav files
Now that we can import .rx2 files and mess with the slices, how about importing ACIDized wave files and handling those slices in the same way?
Should be a breeze, shouldn't it?
Now that we can import .rx2 files and mess with the slices, how about importing ACIDized wave files and handling those slices in the same way?
Should be a breeze, shouldn't it?
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- KVRist
- 116 posts since 15 Jun, 2005 from Arizona, USA
I notice when I create a new audio track the input isn't set to anything.
Wouldn't it make sense if it was automatically set to Audio In?
Nothing huge, but I always forget to set it!
Wouldn't it make sense if it was automatically set to Audio In?
Nothing huge, but I always forget to set it!
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- KVRAF
- 4143 posts since 7 Sep, 2001 from Melbourne, Australia
True - that would be nice. Another string to the bow.DarkStar wrote:Import ACIDized wav files
Now that we can import .rx2 files and mess with the slices, how about importing ACIDized wave files and handling those slices in the same way?
Should be a breeze, shouldn't it?
Regards
Caleb
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.
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- KVRAF
- 25007 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
Caleb wrote:True - that would be nice. Another string to the bow.DarkStar wrote:Import ACIDized wav files
Now that we can import .rx2 files and mess with the slices, how about importing ACIDized wave files and handling those slices in the same way?
Should be a breeze, shouldn't it?
Regards
Caleb
+1 because it's not a proprietary-format - so it's also possible to include acid-file writing - and this is imo where the real fun begins - and it's just a data-chuck which gets added to a normal .wav file so you can open them in any application which can read .wav's - it's just so much more sensible and useful than that Propellerheads-stuff...
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- KVRAF
- 4143 posts since 7 Sep, 2001 from Melbourne, Australia
OK - I went to a bit of trouble to get some ideas down with some very atrocious mock-ups.
This is how I possibly see the XTC format going forward (well particularly for audio parts) to give us XT2 users a better-than-REX2 format to use. I'm really sold on this as a concept although it very obviously needs some work (apologies for the sloppiness) and some of it may just not be possible in XT2 unfortunately, but I'm putting it out there for discussion. I may even start a new thread with the same link down the track to try to generate more discussion - but not at the moment.
Before jens pounces on me, this is not something I'm asking for straight away. There's many things that need to be done before something quite this extravagant, but there's no harm in at least looking and wondering just how far the XTC format can go.
Anyway.....
http://energyxt.calebblake.com/xt2/prop ... iopart.htm
Regards
Caleb
This is how I possibly see the XTC format going forward (well particularly for audio parts) to give us XT2 users a better-than-REX2 format to use. I'm really sold on this as a concept although it very obviously needs some work (apologies for the sloppiness) and some of it may just not be possible in XT2 unfortunately, but I'm putting it out there for discussion. I may even start a new thread with the same link down the track to try to generate more discussion - but not at the moment.
Before jens pounces on me, this is not something I'm asking for straight away. There's many things that need to be done before something quite this extravagant, but there's no harm in at least looking and wondering just how far the XTC format can go.
Anyway.....
http://energyxt.calebblake.com/xt2/prop ... iopart.htm
Regards
Caleb
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.
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- KVRian
- 852 posts since 28 Oct, 2004
caleb: goood work, just what I wanted to say with my chanel-routing post above!
I think a "slim" mode would benefit too, so that you can hide automation lanes to easily swap/drag samples between different channels
I think a "slim" mode would benefit too, so that you can hide automation lanes to easily swap/drag samples between different channels
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- KVRAF
- 4143 posts since 7 Sep, 2001 from Melbourne, Australia
Ooooh yeah - I forgot to add that you should be able to resize the lanes and hide the automation lanes etc. Good point.
Regards
Caleb
Regards
Caleb
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.