Does the world need another drum sampler vst?

[BERFAB]

Why BATTERY doesn't have a built in sequencer I'll never know. B3 got FX, so I figure that a sequencer is the only thing to add in B4.

[GHOST19]

There are some good expensive drum samplers.
We need a free one like Tatapoum but without the bugs.

features needed :
16 pads OK
multi outs
velocity/pitch controls
reverse sample
a few FX

It just must work flawlessly with decent CPU load.

[cjayconrod]

There are some good expensive drum samplers.
We need a free one like Tatapoum but without the bugs.

Yeah, Tatapoum broke my heart. Made a killer track with it that I can't open up again because the plug is too unstable.

I'd like something very intuitive to use. So simple that I don't need a 180-page manual to get it running.

[mw]

Sequencer, preview, effects, flam, shuffle, adsr, assignable outputs, full GM kit or enough pads/slots for 128 samples if needed. I own Battery 3 but would use another drum machine if it had a decent sequencer. I would love to see something like the drum machine from Orion Platinum as a vsti with the ability to have different patterns and the ability to trigger the individual patterns by midi note on/off.

[shamann]

Sample playback is fairly well covered, but I agree with a lot of people here that a drum sampler with in-depth sequencing is where there's still lots of room for improvement.

I would love to see something with step sequencer (unlike Guru's grid, which I'm not a fan off), but with the ability to sequence all necessary parameters and effects of a sample, as well as pattern sequencing/note triggering, and the ability to control timing at a very low level and separately for each sample's sequence, so that everything isn't locked into 4/4 time.

Trackers probably offer the most depth for drum sequencing, but personally I find I don't have fun using trackers and prefer working with a button-style interfaces. I'd love something much like Tatapoum, with more advanced parameter sequencing, and something that is less oppressive on the host audio engine (which I find Tatapoum often causes stutters and hiccups).

[gigglyAPE]

DRUM SAMPLERS SHOULD HAVE:

at least:

step sequencer
EASY SAMPLE BROWSING (just like in RMIV) VERY IMPORTANT FEATURE
amp envelope
some simple effects

MAYBE THE STEP SEQUENCER COULD WORK LIKE TRACKERS!?

[Sascha Franck]

I think GURUs pattern sequencer ain't bad, but for me it lacks a decent slicer and some more cells (viewable at once).

Also, regarding onboard audio editing, it seems to be like some unspoken rule that there's got to be no destructive editing in software samplers. I really wonder why. I mean, I can mangle the sample in whatever audio editor anyways, should I ever feel the need - why not have any such options straight on a VSTi sampler? Doesn't make much sense to me.

FFS, I should again start a thread about the lack of a really nice all around drum sampler. It's still not there and the last thread I started is already 2.5 years old.
It's here, btw:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... sc&start=0
And I'd still have some things to add...

Let's have a look at what we have (I may miss quite some, but you may get the picture):

- "Standard" drum samplers. Such as Battery, DR-008, RMIV, DK+ and what not. Some with more features, some with less. Still bog standard.

- Drum romplers. BFD, EZDrummer, Addicted Drums, whatever. Build with the supposed to be delivered sound libraries in mind. Some with pattern playback.

- Loop library romplers. Right now, only Stylus comes to mind, but I think Yellowtools (?) have something similar as well.

- Slicers. There's still ReCycle, which is doing an excellent job. And then there's the VSTi ones, such as Phatmatik, Microdicer and what not.

- Multitrack slicer stuff. Right now I can only think of Liveslice, but I seem to remember something else.

- Various sound manglers, such as SupaTrigga and LiveCut.

- Fullblown samplers, such as Kontakt.

- "Beat constructors" such as GURU and maybe Logics Ultrabeat.

All of them leave a lot to be desired.
Apart from probably Kontakt, there's not a single one combining a proper slicer and a sampler.
Apart from probably Stylus, Ultrabeat and GURU, host integration (drag and drop of stuff) is just as bad as ever before.
Multitrack slicing in a realtime environment isn't an option in anything else but LiveSlice.

Now, imagine the following scenario, something I'm sure a lot of people would love being able to do:
Load a bunch of loops, tracks and what not into the slicing department of whatever dream drum sampler. Slice, dice and combine them until you found something pleasing. Then "beam" the comped loop/track to the cells of the integrated drum sampler. Drag MIDI files to your host. Or use one finger triggering to activate the loop. Exchange samples at will. Mangle the individual slices to death. Then activate the pattern editor (whatever it may look like) and create your own sequences. Or don't. Drag them to your host of choice. Or don't. You chose, not the software. When done, save everything as a single preset that will always be previewable in song tempo AND song sync (so far only GURU and AppleLoops seem to do that).

There's not a single sampler doing all these things at once. They all fail miserably in one or more areas.

For me, the amazing thing is that all the technologies *are* available right now, and, to make things worse, quite some of them come in a combined fashion, so it's not as if things wouldn't be possible.
For instance, GURU comes with a kickass "previewing machine", very nice host integration and what not. But it's completely failing on the slicing side of things (and some others).
Stylus comes with fantastic host integration and really great mangling options. But once you try to add your own material, you'll be lost without ReCycle (which isn't even working in realtime).
Battery is a fantastic drum sampler. But, even if it's based on the Kontakt engine, they managed to leave the slicing functionality out - why oh why?
LiceSlice seems to be a kickass multitrack slicer and re-arranger. But it defenitely isn't even close to being a real sampler.
Phatmatik and Microdicer are kickass options to slice loops in a realtime context. But there's no way to use multiple tracks in a meaningful way or use them as samplers at all.
Quite some of the bunch are offering a sort of sample editor. But once you want to reload that sample in another instance, you gotta re-do all the edits as none of them will edit any samples destructively.

I may have missed some software, I may as well have missed some functionality, and finally, I may also have missed some lacks of whatever software.
But, as we can clearly see, there *is* a need for some drum sampler. Combine LiveSlice, GURU, Phatmatik and Battery and we're almost there, I'd say.

[gigglyAPE]

can someone tell me why easy-to-use sample browsing is always so overlooked?

[spacedad]

no-one like the sampler in eXT1.4?

[wrench45us]

Combine LiveSlice, GURU, Phatmatik and Battery and we're almost there, I'd say.

I suspect the problem with that is exactly as it is with hosts (and these would be doing as much as a host) that generally focus their expertise and ease of use on audio (recording)editing, midi or clip looping. Some may take a whack at doing all three, but usually falter on at least one.

[Sascha Franck]

can someone tell me why easy-to-use sample browsing is always so overlooked?

It is not.
GURU, DR-008 and Battery are all allowing for easy sample browsing.

[Sascha Franck]

I suspect the problem with that is exactly as it is with hosts (and these would be doing as much as a host) that generally focus their expertise and ease of use on audio (recording)editing, midi or clip looping. Some may take a whack at doing all three, but usually falter on at least one.

Maybe you're right. But that's a shame, innit?

[sonarman]

I hope VAM is still here.

If it's gonna be free then the list of features sounds just about right to me. Control of midi notes would be handy.

Can't understand why people assume there are loads of free drum samplers out there. There are hardly any!

Apart from Grizzly, I can't think of any free, simple drum sampler that has the functions that are listed by VAM.
Forget the poll. The poll don't know shit.

[longbongsilver]

You can somewhat slice in Battery. Copy the sound to multiple pads & adjust start/end points. It's not automatic, but personally I like it.

[Angus_FX]

Sequencer, preview, effects, flam, shuffle, adsr, assignable outputs, full GM kit or enough pads/slots for 128 samples if needed. I own Battery 3 but would use another drum machine if it had a decent sequencer. I would love to see something like the drum machine from Orion Platinum as a vsti with the ability to have different patterns and the ability to trigger the individual patterns by midi note on/off.

Guru pretty much covers that (8 engines x 16 pads = 128 samples). The envelopes are AHR though not ADSR.

Sascha -- what do you find limiting in Guru aside from the slicer and the number of pads onscreen?