KVR Audio

iain_morland · Post by **iain_morland** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:01 pm

I have some really newbie questions about possibly moving to Mac hardware - not necessarily to OS X just yet. I'd appreciate any suggestions and advice.

My current DAW is a home-built Pentium 4 (single core 3.2ghz). This has a dual-boot setup, with one installation of Win XP Home for email, internet, my 'day job', games, etc., and another installation of the same OS as a DAW. The soundcard is an M-Audio FireWire solo.

Although I have several cross-platform VSTs, my two main audio apps are Windows only: Audition and Project 5.

Now I'm thinking it's about time to upgrade my hardware. In the long run I would like to move away from Windows for both day-to-day computing and DAW use, because I'm so appalled by the crapness of Vista.

But in the short term I am thinking it would be simpler and cheaper to get a Mac laptop but run Windows on it - obviously not cheaper in terms of hardware cost, but cheaper in terms of buying and learning new applications.

So, the questions:

What Mac laptops would you recommend for this purpose?

I understand it's possible for XP to coexist with OS X using Bootcamp. But how about having two installations of XP as well as OS X? Is that feasible or nuts? The main reason is I want to play some games but not let them clog the DAW XP installation.

Am I right to think a Mac laptop would probably be better quality and more of an investment than a PC laptop? This is my perception, but that might be simply because Apple's marketing is effective!

Does running Windows on the latest Mac hardware work as well as on the latest PC hardware?

Are there any known issues with the FireWire Solo and Mac hardware?

Are there immanent updates to OS X for which I should wait before buying?

Am I being foolish and should I just get a PC laptop until I'm ready to move entirely to OS X?

And finally...to anyone else who's moved to Mac, what do you wish you'd known before switching that you didn't realise at the time?

Thanks in advance for any tips and comments.

Dominus · Post by **Dominus** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:15 pm

Your main concern is how long Apple is going to let Bootcamp work. They might kill it off with the next revision of OSX, and force you to switch before you're ready.

Audition and Project 5 will never work on OSX, so be prepared to relearn them.

1. Do you really need a laptop? Desktops are cheaper, easier to upgrade, and are more capable.
2. How comfortable are you with OSX?

HelgeG · Post by **HelgeG** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:52 pm

Dominus wrote:Your main concern is how long Apple is going to let Bootcamp work. They might kill it off with the next revision of OSX, and force you to switch before you're ready.

Moot point. Bootcamp is a confirmed feature of the next version of OS X (Leopard/OS X 10.5)

Bootcamp is not the only alternative for running XP/Linux. Both Parallells and Fusion (VMWare) let you run other OSes.

Dominus · Post by **Dominus** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:16 pm

HelgeG wrote:
Moot point. Bootcamp is a confirmed feature of the next version of OS X (Leopard/OS X 10.5)

Ahh, ok, the last I heard it "may not be" part of Leopard.

iain_morland · Post by **iain_morland** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:22 pm

Thank you for the replies so far. Keep them coming!

HelgeG · Post by **HelgeG** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:04 pm

The cheapest option to go would be getting a Mac Mini. Plenty of processor power, and excellent platform to run both OS X and XP on. I do both, and the only thing I recommend that is different from the stock configuration, is to get 2 gigs of RAM in it. Don't buy memory from Apple though, it is overpriced.

bullshark · Post by **bullshark** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:55 pm

iain_morland wrote:So, the questions:
What Mac laptops would you recommend for this purpose?

MacbookPro with a GeForce card for games.

I understand it's possible for XP to coexist with OS X using Bootcamp. But how about having two installations of XP as well as OS X? Is that feasible or nuts? The main reason is I want to play some games but not let them clog the DAW XP installation.

Needless waste of HD space.

Am I right to think a Mac laptop would probably be better quality and more of an investment than a PC laptop? This is my perception, but that might be simply because Apple's marketing is effective!

You can get a Window based laptop with the same spec and build quality has a Mac, but you'll pay trough the nose to get it. Laptop is the one area where cost/quality ratio favor the Mac. And Mac do generally have better resale value.

Does running Windows on the latest Mac hardware work as well as on the latest PC hardware?

Are there any known issues with the FireWire Solo and Mac hardware?

Are there immanent updates to OS X for which I should wait before buying?

Don't know.

Am I being foolish and should I just get a PC laptop until I'm ready to move entirely to OS X?

If you know you'll switch to OSX eventually and need a laptop now, the MacBook pro purchase is a no-brainer. Hell, I'm considering purchasing a MBP and I don't even like OSX, have no software for it and I hate Apple as a company.

Steven T · Post by **Steven T** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:02 pm

Cost/performance - THE BASIC TRUTH:

Mac - Laptop (most pc's use low quality parts inside) Mac build solid laptops.

PC - Desktop (custom built destroys mac to itty bitty peices)

umd · Post by **umd** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:23 pm

I would only recommend a mac to someone how doesn't know shit about computers and has a lot of money to spend.

(Of course, someone will come and say "oh no, mac is so much better and pc is crap")

Oh, you said your pc is home built.

So, you'll know how to build another pc with quality parts that will outperform a mac for a fraction of the price. And in the end, it will sound the same.

botkiller · Post by **botkiller** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:33 pm

Well, what do you want to do with it? Are you considering a mac lappie because of playing live and writing on the go? Or just considering it to consider it? I can tell you that WinXP runs solid on macbooks running parallels. As for audio thru said software, it works, I don't know that I'd trust it on stage, but I don't trust windows on stage regardless of the system it's on. Apple won't kill bootcamp - it's a selling point for them now, always will be. See their website, they talk left and right about "now you can run windows on macs", and all their selling points. It's not going away (I know we've been thru this, but I'm saying why).

The only reason I'd install windows on my macbook (and I won't) is to be able to use VSTs that are windows only, and for those few things that are Windows specific, such as outlook exchange servers work horribly in Firefox - but that's really it. When I buy a Mac desktop, and I will (to replace my already beefy AMD machine, so it won't be for awhile), I'll put windows on it just to have it and for product testing.

So, I can tell you that this is a solid alternative - parallels is very solid, windows programs work, the hardware all seems to talk (in my experience). As to gaming and two installs of XP, I think this is silly. Your Windows registry will be clogged no matter what, that is the nature of windows. That's why it has to be reinstalled every year or so, it does not have a good file management system. No OS is perfect, but don't bog down your machine with two installs of one operating system. If you are buying this Mac specifically for hardware, well, just make it a windows machine, unless you're willing to make a jump to Mac OS, but it sounds like you might not be into that just yet. As far as I know, there are no issues with firewire devices - in fact, OS X finds them and uses them without program installs. There are no OS X updates to consider before buying. I'd wait to upgrade to 10.4.9, because it's a little buggy, but not too bad. I've not seen anything in XP not run on the Mac hardware.

As to which Mac lappies to use, any of them. Any macbook or macbook pro will do all of this. Pros have more power, of course.

As to what I wish I'd known before switching to Mac, I'd say that I wish I'd known that my productivity would have gone up by %90! I spend WAY less time doing analytical shit like finding files and dealing with OS issues. I'm being %100 serious here. I have been a Windows user since 1.0 - and I've never gotten things done as fast as I do on my Mac. Don't get me wrong, I still love windows for various things - but I just get more done on OS X. Perhaps it suits me better. Your results will vary.

There's nothing else I wish I'd known, everything else I already did. Good luck!

botkiller · Post by **botkiller** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:43 pm

johnny1982 wrote:I would only recommend a mac to someone how doesn't know shit about computers and has a lot of money to spend.

That's in no way true, man. Windows or OS X can be used by any user with half a brain. They're both made for Johnny sixpack to boot up and use. You have to have a true understanding of computing if you want to use the deeper factions of OS X (same for Windows, but there's no way this is not true for Macs). It has a real OS shell, it runs on UNIX (which most people won't ever understand), and it actually has things like *gasp* native MIDI and pro sound support (plug in most Firewire devices, they work, done). I still like windows, but don't tell me that "only someone who doesn't know shit about computers" use Macs. If that's true, then why was Protools originally Mac only? Why are there so many pro audio and video editing programs for OS X that are sworn by in studio situations? Why are most studio owners running Macs and not Windows systems? Have you ever dealt with your average windows user in a corporate environment, or even not? I've seen people reduced to tears because of bluescreens related to mouse drivers. This can happen to anyone on any system, but don't tell me I'm an idiot because I use an OS that is based on what I learned computing from, a command shell with actual commands, not a broken so-called shell that doesn't do all I need it to (what used to be DOS), with file management that sabotages itself (yeah, the registry is REAL stable - *barf*).

Just my opinion, but please don't generalize like that.

warp x · Post by **warp x** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:08 pm

johnny1982 wrote:I would only recommend a mac to someone how doesn't know shit about computers and has a lot of money to spend.

actually, I would recommend PC's to those people.

botkiller · Post by **botkiller** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:10 pm

warp x wrote:
johnny1982 wrote:I would only recommend a mac to someone how doesn't know shit about computers and has a lot of money to spend.
actually, I would recommend PC's to those people.

umd · Post by **umd** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:14 pm

Whatever...
Now going for some intel vs. amd thread or something...

botkiller · Post by **botkiller** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:23 pm

johnny1982 wrote: Whatever...
Now going for some intel vs. amd thread or something...

Sounds like a plan.

Talk to me about switching to Mac...and still running XP