Ergonomics: controls + info + empty space vs empty space.

[Mutant]

What do you prefer ?
What is more useful for you when you are working in your DAW software ?

I prefer to have controls and screen areas that show me useful info instead of just looking at (IMHO wasted) empty screen space.

Lunch Money seems to prefer empty spaces:

Regarding empty screen spaces: it's all about ergonomics. It's not "what can you use them for," it's "what value do they add?" The value they add is that your eye can instantly and quickly scan for the information you need. Empty space is very important for almost any visual design you can think of.

[Lunch Money]

Oh lord. As I feared, this poll is useless and engineered for your purposes.

Your Reaper shot, btw, has plenty of empty space. So what you're really showing is, "controls along with empty space", while my Tracktion screenshot has the input icons intentionally disabled (which would otherwise fill part of that space). Tracktion's mute, meters, etc., are on the right... so it's a completely different arrangement as well. People who vote for "controls" are ALSO voting for empty space in your example. My general point (which wasn't supposed to contrast Reaper to Tracktion specifically anyhow) is that empty space is important to visual presentation and ergonomics.

Which it is.

Brutal.

I could just as easily pull up Reaper, squish crap together so that it looks like a mess, and contrast it with Tracktion, taking an actual full screenshot instead of just a selected 1" X 1" area, and ask, "which looks more cluttered? Mutant seems to prefer clutter."

<huge eyeroll>

[Mutant]

btw. Imho when track is stretched so much I would like to have vertical volume fader, pan control and meter (using more of that empty space).

[Hink]

What do you prefer ?
What is more useful for you when you are working in your DAW software ?

I prefer to have controls and screen areas that show me useful info instead of just looking at (IMHO wasted) empty screen space.

Lunch Money seems to prefer empty spaces:

Regarding empty screen spaces: it's all about ergonomics. It's not "what can you use them for," it's "what value do they add?" The value they add is that your eye can instantly and quickly scan for the information you need. Empty space is very important for almost any visual design you can think of.

it depends on how you define "useful info"...in fact my answer might be both. I don't want clutter, Greg is right...it is easier to quickly scan when there is no clutter. But on the other hand if you have to keep switching screens to get the info you want than I'd rather have it all on one page despite the clutter... so I agree with you too

[aMUSEd]

Empty space is as important to good visual design as silence is to good jazz

[Mutant]

Oh lord. As I feared, this poll is useless and engineered for your purposes.

What ? I stated my opinion and quoted your opinion.
How is that engineered ?

Your Reaper shot, btw, has plenty of empty space. So what you're really showing is, "controls along with empty space", while my Tracktion screenshot has the input icons intentionally disabled (which would otherwise fill part of that space). Tracktion's mute, meters, etc., are on the right... so it's a completely different arrangement as well.

Reread the topic title.

I could just as easily pull up Reaper, squish crap together so that it looks like a mess, and contrast it with Tracktion, taking an actual full screenshot instead of just a selected 1" X 1" area, and ask, "which looks more cluttered? Mutant seems to prefer clutter."

Again what were we talking about in my Reaper thread ?

[Lunch Money]

Everything's out of context, Mutant...

Tracktion CAN have controls in that space... assigning and arming input, along with monitoring input levels. The screenshot you chose to borrow from was intentionally minimalistic with everything hidden that was possible to hide.

You're being thick.

[bullshark]

What's important is balance between empty space and information. Too much empty space waste screen estate for no reasons, and too little makes the interface cluttered and confusing. But frankly, I don't think either Tracktion or Reaper has achieved perfect balance in this regards.

[Mutant]

Everything's out of context, Mutant...

Hehehe yeah right !
I even linked to that thread, so nothing is out of context.

Tracktion CAN have controls in that space... assigning and arming input, along with monitoring input levels.

Of course it can.
I can't imagine a modern host that could be that poorly designed.

The screenshot you chose to borrow from was intentionally minimalistic with everything hidden that was possible to hide.

And my reaction to that screenshot was "YUCK !" - nothing more.
And I said that the big part of that yuck was caused by that wasted space.

You're being thick.

Oh really ?
And you like to assume things and guess what people think !

[Mutant]

Too much empty space waste screen estate for no reasons

Exactly !

and too little makes the interface cluttered and confusing.

I agree.

But frankly, I don't think either Tracktion or Reaper has achieved perfect balance in this regards.

+1000000

[Lunch Money]

Everything's out of context, Mutant...

Hehehe yeah right !
I even linked to that thread, so nothing is out of context.

If anybody bothers to read the thread you linked to, it's not out of context. You realize that's not always going to be the case and I would wager that it's rarely going to be the case. Therefore the snipped and cropped screenshot you chose to use is out of context. When trying to resolve conflicting points of view, the best strategy is to ALWAYS give benefit of the doubt.

Of course it can.
I can't imagine a modern host that could be that poorly designed.

Then I'm missing your point. By picking an enlarged track that has its options disabled, and not putting it into context (a full screenshot, for example), you're not really proving anything. You're showing that in one particular configuration, you'd prefer to have some controls in there along with your white space. Which is still contrary to what you were saying earlier in the thread (in context) which is that you do NOT see the value of space at all.

The screenshot you chose to borrow from was intentionally minimalistic with everything hidden that was possible to hide.

And my reaction to that screenshot was "YUCK !" - nothing more.
And I said that the big part of that yuck was caused by that wasted space.[/quote]

But the follow-up portion of that conversation involved talking about the ergonomic benefits of space -in general-. You said that in a computer application, you do NOT value empty space for ergonomic benefit. So which is it? Do you agree with me or not? Judging by the response to bullshark, you probably DO agree with me. So you're fabricating an argument when there shouldn't be one.

You're being thick.

Oh really ?
And you like to assume things and guess what people think !

Well, I'm not sure how that relates to my comment about you being thick... when someone says that, it's an observation, not an assumption. Ironically, though, you're making an assumption and a guess right here. Which is also kinda thick.

Greg

[Mutant]

Of course it can.
I can't imagine a modern host that could be that poorly designed.

Then I'm missing your point. By picking an enlarged track that has its options disabled, and not putting it into context (a full screenshot, for example), you're not really proving anything.

Jeesus ! All I was talking about is: 100% empty space is inferior to half empty space !

You're showing that in one particular configuration, you'd prefer to have some controls in there along with your white space.

Correct !

Which is still contrary to what you were saying earlier in the thread (in context) which is that you do NOT see the value of space at all.

Let me see...
I never said anything like this.

You said that in a computer application, you do NOT value empty space for ergonomic benefit.

I do not value excessive amounts of empty space.

[zeoy]

Hey Mutant, you know what's this?



.
.
.
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a detailed map of Sahara in 1:100000000000000000 scale

Joking aside, you may have different definitions of what "excessive" means but the picture you posted doesn't serve any purpose.

[Lunch Money]

Regarding empty screen spaces: it's all about ergonomics. It's not "what can you use them for," it's "what value do they add?" The value they add is that your eye can instantly and quickly scan for the information you need. Empty space is very important for almost any visual design you can think of. Artists, marketing copywriters, typesetters... such people understand the value of empty space. You might not even be aware of how much your brain "needs" it until you're faced with clutter. Then you'd suddenly think, "this feels kinda busy and claustrophobic, and I'm not 100% sure why." Good ergonomic design will make proper use of space, not just fill it up for the sake of filling it up.

[regarding "this feels kinda busy and claustrophobic, and I'm not 100% sure why."] No I would never think something like this ! We are different hehehe.

So where is the communication breaking down here?

[Mutant]

Joking aside, you may have different definitions of what "excessive" means

Right.

Me and LM are clearly 2 completely different persons.

I would like to have as low amount of empty space as possible (heck I even would not object to no empty space at all - maybe I'm an opposite of claustrophobic ?) - and I can't even imagine why someone would want to purposefully hide buttons and other controls just to have a "less cluttered screen".

LM ?

Judging by his responses - he likes big amounts of empty space so much that he actually posted that yucky screenshot thinking that it was a pro-Traction eyecandy.

Tastes , tastes, tastes !


btw. I'm out ! There is no point in discussing things with someone who obviously transmits at a completely different wavelength.