KVR Audio

zeoy · Post by **zeoy** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:43 pm

Thanx for sharing Don. I really enjoyed it ... well at least as much one can enjoy a bad trip

I don't think I have the complete picture regarding your work but, I agree with xerocreep, this must be one of the best so far

cheers

[ xerocreep ] · Post by **[ xerocreep ]** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:54 pm

Sickle wrote:urgh..I hate to think that I might have taken away something from this place...

For what it's worth, I don't think you have taken anything away from KVR, we were already like this when the auditorium was around.

I think it was just getting really crowded with other stuff around here and getting hard to operate.. Not to mention your perpetual bannings. hehehe

nocompromise · Post by **nocompromise** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:58 pm

thanks for this.
i'm just a bit confused as to the reasoning here though. If this stuff is for yourself ie you're getting something personal out of it, why post on here at all if the experience is negative? you're gaining anyways by doing it.
i don't mind the introspection but I could go play with a chainsaw (or somesuch)and make some noise myself but it doesn't help the listener get into my head. Your comments express yourself more than your music ever do and I find that wierd.
I asked you to put some vox to one of your tunes in the past and you ignored me. I'm asking again. Put some words into these. Did you ever think about it?

Hovmod · Post by **Hovmod** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:22 pm

I always "enjoy" your music, mate, and this one would rate in the top five. It moves from one mood/sound/place to another in big steps, leaving the previous mood behind for dead, constantly forcing me to pay attention.

I don't pay that much attention to your dedications and all though. I always get the fact that *for you* it's connected with some personal disaster or other, but it doesn't often end up having the same kind of meaning to me, of course. (notable exception: Death of a woman)
I didn't go to hell while listening to it, nor did it conjure up images from Dante. I'm fine with that, I usually don't see cows when I listen to Beethoven's sixth or think flutes are birds and violins Jesus, either. So your explanations serve as your ideas about your songs, I get my own. Which is one of the things I like most about music. I get to decide what it's about. Whether you like me to or not.

Your skill in making unbelievably distorted sounds feel warm and lush and almost consoling is one I really admire and would love to master. That rampant affair that starts around 15-16 minutes and zips around until the end, for instance. Just awesome.

I wish I could play your songs outside of my headphones more often.

Sickle · Post by **Sickle** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:24 pm

nocompromise wrote:I asked you to put some vox to one of your tunes in the past and you ignored me. I'm asking again. Put some words into these. Did you ever think about it?

Hmm..

Yes, I remember well when you asked me to do so, it was on my 'Scorned' track, which was like the 2nd track I ever made using the digital medium and more than a little embarassing for me at this point in the game. Vocals were indeed done, but they were done by endmusik, who's wrapped up in his own thing and I didn't want to bother him with it.

That and the direction my material has moved towards(ie, a nearly complete departure from conventional rythm/sequenced structures) makes vocals not only a distraction, but an impediment to the material itself.

Example:

Watch the scene where the blonde sees her own body in Mulholland Drive where the sense of dread is so palpable you feel like you have a sucking chest wound.

Half of that is the background music.

How the f**k do you slap lyrics over that and expect any kind of credibilty?

You offered me lots of good advice early on I remember, especially in private, which I appreciated. I wasn't aware that I had left you hanging, so sorry if you felt that way. I also remember you wanted to mix/engineer the Saligia Project, but that project failed due to my own shortcomings as a project leader and _very_ personal issues in my home life.

My bad.

Shane Sanders · Post by **Shane Sanders** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:41 pm

I listened on Saturday (I think) and was gonna comment but you were telling Meffy it wasn't for him and I think I just took it that the track was somehow for a closed audience on some level.

Anyway, if I was relating details about the piece to someone, I'd say it describes a long surface, like the hood of a rusty old 1970's Buick under a microscope. And the journey or shape of the piece is a low microscopic fly-by over that surface. Instead of having a narrator, the piece is more like a sattelite coldly grabbing up data and details. Some pieces kind of have a detached quality, and this one is definitely third-person omniscient, imo.

It's calmer than a lot of your pieces, with the distorted elements either very low in the mix or not so wide open. That helped me stay with it, since it's quite long. Sometimes noise-core type pieces just start to grate on my nerves and my body begins to tell me more than the piece does, and so I turn away from it. But this one has lots of little details in there. So, overall I think it's a piece with merit. One for the 'save' folder for sure.

nocompromise · Post by **nocompromise** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:47 pm

you never left me hanging.
all the offers i made still hold up if you get something together for me to do. I know its not financially viable for me but the offer is still there.

regarding the vox, i wasn't refering to scorned though, i was refering to this series. i personally love the fact sound for visuals doesn't have to have any vox (or music for that matter) in it.

.... makes vocals not only a distraction, but an impediment to the material itself.

How the f**k do you slap lyrics over that and expect any kind of credibilty?

now we're getting somewhere

These questions are precisely what you should be thinking about now. All you've done is take one particular path that leads to where you are now and is responsible for where you've been personally, like us all. You're doing this to escape yourself (don't want to get into a big debate about this) or find yourself or whatever. I've offered you the way to do it.

I hardly think credibility is the motivation. It is an interesting question though. How do you put vox into this stuff when its impediment to the material itself?

Over to u m8

Sickle · Post by **Sickle** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:53 pm

Hovmod wrote:I don't pay that much attention to your dedications and all though. I always get the fact that *for you* it's connected with some personal disaster or other, but it doesn't often end up having the same kind of meaning to me, of course.

I'm glad you don't; it's not meant to serve as a manipulation of the audience, it's just background chatter. I try once in while to provide context on what to me, are/were important pieces, but contextually, it's just intended as an insight, with as you said, significant stand-outs like DTAW. Sometimes it's just a picture, like the one I used for the 'Inert' track I posted last month, which was located after I made the track and was struck by how well the title, track itself, and the artwork jelled together. I try to provide a little something extra when and where I can for the listener. I always admired George's FANTASTIC images that came with his Cafe uploads. I emulate him poorly that way, but that's the basic intention.

Glad you liked the track! I get performance anxiety with the regulars, especially from shamman; he'll gut me outright if a track's stinky..

Sickle · Post by **Sickle** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:12 pm

Shane Sanders wrote:I listened on Saturday (I think) and was gonna comment but you were telling Meffy it wasn't for him and I think I just took it that the track was somehow for a closed audience on some level.

No, not at all. I was simply ackowledging his bump for me while letting him know that it wasn't up his alley.

Meffy's into classy stuff.

Meffy's classy.

grok?

Glad you liked. I also reigned in(heavily) the reverb on this one. I've hid behind it like a bitch for a while now and I'm considering a drastic reduction in it's useage as I move further away from synth-generated audio into more sample-based source, which is nearly all I've worked with this last 6 months or so.

Synths are great, I love em, and that's from a sludge-core senior citizen who would have smashed a hienekin bottle against the face of anyone who would have dragged a synth onstage back in the day, but I guess I've never been 100% comfortable with the sound of digital synths in general, and while I'm admitting that much, I'll say flat out that Reaktor's filters make me wanna f**king puke most of the time and I've really wondered how much they've 'hurt' my material, hence my attempts earlier this week to set up my soundcard as an effects loop so I can start using my pedals/racks again.

People say I'm capable of capturing 'warmth' and such, and I feel relatively confident that I can to a degree, but then I listen to some older CD's and I'm just blown away by how different they sound..

Sickle · Post by **Sickle** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:24 pm

nocompromise wrote:you never left me hanging.
all the offers i made still hold up if you get something together for me to do. I know its not financially viable for me but the offer is still there.

Much appreciated, and I'll keep that in mind.

nocompromise wrote:regarding the vox, i wasn't refering to scorned though, i was refering to this series. i personally love the fact sound for visuals doesn't have to have any vox (or music for that matter) in it.

Then what's the point of vocal content?

.... makes vocals not only a distraction, but an impediment to the material itself.

How the f**k do you slap lyrics over that and expect any kind of credibilty?

nocompromise wrote: now we're getting somewhere

These questions are precisely what you should be thinking about now. All you've done is take one particular path that leads to where you are now and is responsible for where you've been personally, like us all. You're doing this to escape yourself (don't want to get into a big debate about this) or find yourself or whatever. I've offered you the way to do it.

Howzzat? No grokie on that one..

nocompromise wrote:I hardly think credibility is the motivation. It is an interesting question though. How do you put vox into this stuff when its impediment to the material itself?

That's easy: You don't.

Or, if you're having a moment of weakness that no one's immune to, you usually slap in some cheesy movie line everyone will recognize or if you have more resource/talent/motivation/time to kill, you dig for hours through rare, old, clunky, energy-sucking archives for something esoteric that might pass for clever with 2% of your audience..

nocompromise · Post by **nocompromise** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:41 pm

mmmmm
its the process man.

its cheesy so I better not do it?
its hard so i better not do it?
only 2% of my audience will get it so i better not do it?
I can't do it so i better not do it?
I don't know how to so i better not do it?
people don't do that so i better not do it?

really?

CypherOne · Post by **CypherOne** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:53 pm

Sickle wrote:you usually slap in some cheesy movie line everyone will recognize or if you have more resource/talent/motivation/time to kill, you dig for hours through rare, old, clunky, energy-sucking archives for something esoteric that might pass for clever with 2% of your audience..

ooh...

Sickle · Post by **Sickle** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:57 pm

CypherOne wrote:
Sickle wrote:you usually slap in some cheesy movie line everyone will recognize or if you have more resource/talent/motivation/time to kill, you dig for hours through rare, old, clunky, energy-sucking archives for something esoteric that might pass for clever with 2% of your audience..

ooh...

oopsie.

edit: for the record, I love that technique, particularly in breakbeat, I just don't think it conforms to my own thing too well.

@no compromise: You're doing that 'argument for argument's sake' thing again..

If you don't know that's not how I think, then you've learned nothing about me in the last 3 years.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:17 pm

vocal content? easy...

screams of pain and agony, angels dieing, animal slaughter...
all treated in the same way you treat all your other audio.
or you could do a candlemass type thing with operatics

the first suggestion was the only was i could hear vocal content, or perhaps occassional lines of poetry kind of thing, either way they would only be consolidating the idea, and then that wouldnt leave it as open to interpretation, both hovmod and shane gave completely different descriptions of what they get from the piece and again my own thoughts when listening without prejudice are miles away from their ideas. perhaps knowing that the sounds are from aliens origin pushed me in my direction but i feel more like im on a drop ship falling into a bad atmosphere, akin to aliens i guess rather than the thing(also a fave of mine, well carpenter in general if you ignore ghosts of mars)

though our sounds are somewhat different these days don i do think we still have similar ideas and ideals, neither of us is here to please an audience, we do what we do because it works for us.
who knows mebbe one day you will have an idea that involves vocals, never say never, but for now go where it takes you, seems to be working so far

now check my tunes mofo

nocompromise · Post by **nocompromise** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:22 pm

no you're wrong my friend. i want you to do this for you. to see what you'll get out of it.
i'm not suggesting you start singing or something. i think you're taking this too literally.
but ok i'll bow out for another 6 months

Friends 4 Life Pt IV - Bouyancy of a Withered Heart