KVR Audio

Signal chain · Post by **Signal chain** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:30 pm

erm ... sound different than E phrigian (only white keys isn' it?)

I know it's an uneducated theory question .....

I 'm doing a floating melody with a slow bass accompaniment wierd

sounds across ...... . only white keys ....

to get that uneducated E phrigian emm feeling .....

sorry to bother you still with this modes question?

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:46 pm

Because the sense of a scales character comes not just from the notes in a melody but from the relationship between the melody and the perceived harmonic center.

Sorry, that's as short as I can make it.

Polite Company · Post by **Polite Company** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:56 pm

Well Herodotus beat me to it. My two word answer was interval relationships. The notes may be the same but it is the relationships that matter for instance the tonic chord in C Major is a major chord (natch

) whereas in the E phrygian scale the tonic chord is a minor.

gravehill · Post by **gravehill** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:27 pm

I can't condense this to two words either (very sorry about that) but to try it out try noodling something on C major with your right hand and play E on your left. That way you hear the C major stuff in relation to E instead of C. -> E Phrygian mode.

Ekus · Post by **Ekus** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:30 pm

one word: reference,
its about how the 7 tones relate to the chord their played over. If you play an Eminor chord, the scale comes to rest at the "E" instead of "C". And your right about the terminology, Phrygian, it's the 3rd mode of the Major (Ionian) scale. At the end of the day is comes down to where the 2 halfstep end up, Phygian is dark because it starts with the halfstep.

Signal chain · Post by **Signal chain** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:19 pm

wow ... many answers to think about ... and very fast ...

thanks a lot .... kvr magic

So the thing is E is the tonic and the tonic chord is E minor?

then B is the dominant umm ....

I understand the concept probably but not the feeling yet ...

thanks really ...

I wonder if you guys can recognise that feeling once you hear it,

tha marco.

Gregjazz · Post by **Gregjazz** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:53 pm

herodotus wrote:Because the sense of a scales character comes not just from the notes in a melody but from the relationship between the melody and the perceived harmonic center.

Perceived harmonic center (well said) is made of several factors... not just the chord, but the perceived root of the chord. Playing an E phrygian scale over an E minor triad still leaves the possibility of it being a Cmaj7 chord, unless the root is explicit. The harmonic center is also perceived by the progression that surrounds it--its context. Anyway, these are just a few factors.

Bottom line is that although the note values are the same (but different degrees), there's a big difference.

gravehill · Post by **gravehill** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:48 am

Ekus wrote:Phygian is dark because it starts with the halfstep.

So what it comes down to, is that the intervals are completely different that in C major scale, even that E Phrygian uses the same actual notes.

Phrygian is way darker than Major (Ionian) because:

- Instead of being a major (happy), it's minor (sad/dark), aka the 3rd of the scale is a half-step smaller in relation to the root tone than in major
- The second is minor instead of major
- The sixth degree of the scale is minor instead of major
- The seventh degree is minor instead of major

Bottomline: In Phrygian mode all "weak" intervals are minor (whereas in Ionian they are all major).

Now that you have gotten this far, try comparing these two, C Ionian (C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C [C Major]) and C Phrygian (C, bD, bE, F, G, bA, bB, C [the notes come actually from bA Major]). Quite a big difference, no?

Signal chain · Post by **Signal chain** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:52 am

-Thanks Gregjazz so you also stress the percived harmonic centre factor as distinguish .... good

- Gravehill you 're talking about chords aren't you?
I don't have chords over the melody(ies) but tend to wright 3-4-5
kind of horizontal lines where the chords aren't emm ... actually are still there, fragmented in a more random form but there ,you're defenetly right, thanks a lot,
marco.

gravehill · Post by **gravehill** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:13 pm

Signal chain wrote:- Gravehill you 're talking about chords aren't you?

Only indirectly. I was actually referring to modes (as in E Phrygian being the 3rd mode of C Major). Chords being combinations of notes in a given scale, it does apply to them as well.

Signal chain · Post by **Signal chain** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:11 pm

yeah I'm slowly arriving at that ...

thanks again

marco.

In two words .......why is it C major scale should ......