What I think about ET......

[sirbellog]

I installed the "William's presets, that Julia sent me (BTW, without caring to give any reply to the specific question I had asked her 24 hours ago).
So what ?
Crashes.
I have WS 3-1-8 installed, which loads and plays everything fine (all WS banks, Manystation, Fuel, even TSW and Vox'd).
But the WS4 version of ET presets prefers to distinguish itself from the crowd, and gives :
- error messages (V4 FX not found), then freeze,
- strange sounds (distorted) when a presets finally loads,
- "app encountered a problem and must quit"....
So either WS4 format is not backward compatible, or those converted presets have something special to them which don't like WS3, or maybe simply me......
The fact that all other soundsets, presets, banks work just fine proves that my system (which daily runs a lot of demanding apps without any problem) is not to be suspected.
The bottom line is, more than 2 weeks since purchase, and still no joy at all with ET.....
I have no time left to lose on this matter, so I give up and :
- if Bitr agrees on a license transfer,
- if someone qualifies for the ET crossgrade AND is tempted by this product at 70% of full xgrade price,
I'm ready to re-sell this lib (I'll stick to my Ethnoworld, Kong, and RA sounds).
I thank in advance Bitr for letting us know if this is possible.


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Info: Misleading thread title edited by the moderator.

[Karmacomposer]

Sirbellog,

Do me a favor. Download this file:

http://www.mfelkerco.com/BITR/ET_KRMA.rar

Place it in your /wusikstation data/presets folder under something like /ethnotronics or just keep the /ET_KRMA filename intact after you unrar it.

Make sure your ET samples are located under /wusikstation data/soundsets as well please.

Now try those out and tell me if they work. I used the most stable V3 release to create those - so as long as you have that or better, they should work just fine. Since I use the Lite Verb, not found in Wusik V1 or V2, you may have trouble with lesser versions.

If they work - then hold tight, as I am creating presets for ET and all the BITR products.

Mike

[pw]

I installed the "William's presets, that Julia sent me (BTW, without caring to give any reply to the specific question I had asked her 24 hours ago).
So what ?
Crashes.
I have WS 3-1-8 installed, which loads and plays everything fine (all WS banks, Manystation, Fuel, even TSW and Vox'd).
But the WS4 version of ET presets prefers to distinguish itself from the crowd, and gives :
- error messages (V4 FX not found), then freeze,
- strange sounds (distorted) when a presets finally loads,
- "app encountered a problem and must quit"....
So either WS4 format is not backward compatible, or those converted presets have something special to them which don't like WS3, or maybe simply me......
The fact that all other soundsets, presets, banks work just fine proves that my system (which daily runs a lot of demanding apps without any problem) is not to be suspected.
The bottom line is, more than 2 weeks since purchase, and still no joy at all with ET.....
I have no time left to lose on this matter, so I give up and :
- if Bitr agrees on a license transfer,
- if someone qualifies for the ET crossgrade AND is tempted by this product at 70% of full xgrade price,
I'm ready to re-sell this lib (I'll stick to my Ethnoworld, Kong, and RA sounds).
I thank in advance Bitr for letting us know if this is possible.

Hey mate, I think you have really suffered here, I have been watching your posts...

Anyway, I have some advice. First, I really think this latest issue is not related to the earlier ones you had. I *know* that V4 presets are not *fully* compatible with V3 Wusikstation - so right there it sounds like you have a problem if somehow the presets you have now *require* V4.

It is all a mess, but I think there are different issues here, unfortunately meeting at the same point of your Wusik + ET installation.

Sorry I can't help you more, it looks like only WIlliam and BITR can...

[sirbellog]

Sirbellog,
Do me a favor. Download this file:
http://www.mfelkerco.com/BITR/ET_KRMA.rar
If they work - then hold tight, as I am creating presets for ET and all the BITR products.
Mike

Hi Mike, thank you for posting.
I'll try that tomorrow, it's too late here (GMT time). and I'm not really in the mood (my interest for ET is going down, down, down...)
Anyway, I'll do it only to please you, because you took some time to try and solve those unforgiveable issues.
Nevertheless, I can't forget that it shoud have been Bitr's job, not yours, since the very first alarms (mine and others'), more than 10 days ago now, to take care of it...
To think that the best solution for them was only offering you an NFR copy with the hope that you'd make usable WS3 presets "at your own pace" (I quote your words or so, and, don't get me wrong, I fully understand your reservation as a non-Bitr-official) , says a LOT about Bitr's commitment to the level of support they intend to offer for their libraries...
Not even to mention that they quietly stated on their site that ET was "compatible with all WS engines", just to confess a bit later here, in a (now-censored) post, that they did not even had a WS3, nor a WS4 copy to really test this....
Is this serious, professional ?
Well, I once was seduced by Bitr with TSW, and -in a much lesser extent- with Vox'd, then my enthusiasm was "colded down" by the Ethnotronics mess (release in november, no december, eeeh, no middle of next year, oh sh..., in fact we don't know when...)
At that time (2 years ago) I told myself, "okay, for your own good, keep away from that company". My bad : I'm a sucker for ethnic sounds, so I did not fully remember that wise advice to myself when ET was announced !

[sirbellog]

Hey mate, I think you have really suffered here, I have been watching your posts...
Anyway, I have some advice. First, I really think this latest issue is not related to the earlier ones you had. I *know* that V4 presets are not *fully* compatible with V3 Wusikstation - so right there it sounds like you have a problem if somehow the presets you have now *require* V4.
It is all a mess, but I think there are different issues here, unfortunately meeting at the same point of your Wusik + ET installation.
Sorry I can't help you more, it looks like only WIlliam and BITR can...

Hi pw,
thank you for your kind words.
Indeed it's a mess,
but IMHO it should'nt have been...
Why ? We have here a company which develops mainly for WS engine.
Would it be too much of an assumption to think that, as such, they have all the versions of WS, and carefully check out their libraries/presets/banks ?
What would you say about a plugin company which claims : vst, au, dx, and rtas versions available, and which tells a little later, when problems occur : "sorry, yes, it seems that the AU version does not work , and we'll try and reproduce this as soon as our neighbour is willing to lend us his Mac for the day ?
Okay, the WS engine updates itself more than often, but it's the duty of a WS library developer to keep updated and informed about those changes...
Not William's, or the users'.

[dnekm]

I have just been through something similar to this and there is a solution, but you will not like it....

I have Wusik 3.18 stable and installed on my test/dev drive....

I have the newest Wusik 4.08 installed on my Audio drive....

I made a preset today on my Audio drive and went to open it on my test drive....

I got the same errors you are reporting.

I can tell you right now, that any preset made in Wusik V4.08 will open in V3.18 with those error messages, as well as Polyphony set to 2.

But, the fix for this is to manually set the Polyphony to 16 again on all OSC and W1/W2, and then open the FX (even if "Bypass" is selected - ie., not used) and save the preset again. But the FX need to saved for each Osc And W layer, as well as the FX1 and FX2 settings....

I cannot fault William for this as I am the one who chose to make a preset I knew would have to be backward compatible in V4 to V3.

For myself, any sounds for Wusik or presets that I make for the time being will all be compatible with V3.18. In this way they are usable in V3, V4, and as far as I know, V1 and 2 as well....

I wish I could be of more help here, but I can only report from my own experience and the workarounds I have had to find while making things for the widest acceptance of the current Wusik audience....

[harryson]

Gilles,

I understand that you have trouble with ET and this is bad and we're not happy about it, but finally you should accecpt that the reason isn't ET but your Wusikstation version in combination with WS3/4 converted ET Presets, this is something different than ET in general.

You're completley angry, but we have nothing to do with this and you even blame us a bad support in general. This is rather bad style.

The facts are:

- ET SoundSets are compatible with all ws-engine versions.
- ET player is WS1/2 and the Presets are too.

That's the product description and we never say anything different.

ET works fine with it's own player. Whay don't you use it? If you want to use WS3 or WS4 Wusikstation you are doing that under the product description of wusik and actually your topic should be posted in the wusik forum. As we're cooperating with William it's OK to post it here to as the issue is mixed with our product.

A part ot the ET customers is using WS3/4 Wusikstation, so we converted the Presets to this format, in fact William did that, as an extra service. Surely it's an idea to use the Wusikstation instead of our ET player. But as it doesn't work successfully in all cases, although it works at wusik, we surely try to find our what this can be. In fact we're currently supporting wusik issues too. Everbody hopes to find the reason ASAP, so please be patient, or use our player. If you don't have it anymore we can always replace it with a new download link.

Finally: Never again post something violating the forum rules, you did now for several times.

harryson

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www.backintimerecords.de
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[sirbellog]

- ET SoundSets are compatible with all ws-engine versions.

Can you seriously keep on saying this ? Of course the "soundsets" are compatible, but what are the soundsets without usable presets ? Do you know a lot of current samples companies, which would sell only raw samples for Kontakt, Giga, EXS, and tell their customers : "here are the sounds, now it's up to you to do whatever is needed to use them in a musical context..." ?
Plus, I returned to ET page at Bitr, and after reading carefully, I saw nothing which clearly warns potential buyers about the problems : based on that page, today, I would do the same mistake to think that as a WS3 owner this lib is for me without any restriction.

ET works fine with it's own player. Whay don't you use it? If you want to use WS3 or WS4 Wusikstation you are doing that under the product description of wusik and actually your topic should be posted in the wusik forum. As we're cooperating with William it's OK to post it here to as the issue is mixed with our product.
If you don't have it anymore we can always replace it with a new download link.

I don't have this player anymore, because having had WS2, then 3 (with which I use ALL libs in WS format with zero problem, BUT ET ), I had absolutely no reason to keep it.
Anyway I'm not stubborn, and if it was just a matter of requesting it to your company and re-installing it, I would have done so already... BUT : I asked you here (in a now "removed" post), to confirm if, as it seems to have been said in the past, it's not possible to have 2 different versions of WS (v1, and 3 in this case) at the same time on the same computer. Well, I am still waiting for an answer.......
Not knowing this, I would not install a potential conflict-maker in an otherwise perfect system. It was a simple question, you apparently chose to ignore it (I don't know why, but at any rate this is not *my* vision of "support"). On my side, I don't see any reason why I should have posted this question in the Wuzik forum, since it is directly related to the limitations of "YOUR" player (and where it might "confuse" other WS users with an "off-topic" debate.

Finally: Never again post something violating the forum rules, you did now for several times.

I'd be curious to know which rules I violated, by just stating real, true facts (and apart from the censored post story : I indeed did not know it was not allowed to ask why, so I did it in good faith... and anyway I keep on thinking -like other people- that this deletion was, at best, inapropriate and not very friendly for the people trying to sort out their trouble with ET)
Or is it because I also said that I was not very happy with the way Bitr manages ET and support ? Is it how you like and accept "free speech", considering the expression of a customer's frustration and fatigue as a violation of the rules ? I employed no crude word, did not show any disrespect, did not attack tyour company on false grounds.... (I even changed the title : my weak english does not tell me for sure if "pita" is quite okay or so-so, then, in doubt...)
Be sure that if I was NOT aware of rules, (and also because by nature I prefer to remain as much as possible a kind person, believe it or not), and even though english is not my language, I could have easily expressed my "anger" and my current poor opinion about Bitr policy and support in a far more "colourful" way...

[ZombyWoof]

...confirm if, as it seems to have been said in the past, it's not possible to have 2 different versions of WS (v1, and 3 in this case) at the same time on the same computer.

I'm running the WS1-based vox'd and TSW VSTi's together with WS4 without a problem. Since I don't have ET, I can't vouch for that player.

[sirbellog]

...confirm if, as it seems to have been said in the past, it's not possible to have 2 different versions of WS (v1, and 3 in this case) at the same time on the same computer.

I'm running the WS1-based vox'd and TSW VSTi's together with WS4 without a problem. Since I don't have ET, I can't vouch for that player.

Thanks ZombiWoof for your input.
Nervertheless, I'd like to know especially about WS v3 and the older versions : indeed I seem to remember William saying a while ago that v4 had a new scheme of install, which does not require data entry into the registry any more.
This new method would explain why v4 can co-exist with v1 troublefree. Unfortunately, I'm almost sure (but not 100%) that it's not the same with v1 to 3. Hence my question.

[ZombyWoof]

OK, I swapped the dlls out and went back to v3.1.8. I was able to load TSW, voxd and WS3 into Bidule simultaneously and played a note concurrently with all 3 instruments. They each have an individual VST id.

I also renamed the WS3 dll and ini and was able to run WS3&4 simultaneously, so that is also possible (though it has little to do with your question).

Hope that helps.

[sirbellog]

OK, I swapped the dlls out and went back to v3.1.8. I was able to load TSW, voxd and WS3 into Bidule simultaneously and played a note concurrently with all 3 instruments. They each have an individual VST id.

I also renamed the WS3 dll and ini and was able to run WS3&4 simultaneously, so that is also possible (though it has little to do with your question).

Hope that helps.

Thanks again ZombiWoof for taking the time and effort to do all this.
You for sure are more adventurous than me with your system. I would'nt have dared this, even if I had the tools available and if I don't clearly see what you mean with "I swapped the dlls out" (I suppose you took them away from the vst folder ?).
Anyway what keeps on surprising me here is, all positive things and attempts to really help come strictly from users, while only vague, general, half-useless information, and lessons about "good behaviour" , not to mention half-hidden threats about banishment and so on come only from the "official line of the party".
Anyway, I'd really like to get a definitive statement about the possibility of installing the player at the same time as WS3 (don't misunderstand me, it's not that I don't trust you, but you seem more acquainted than me with "tweaks and tricks" on your machine, and consequently more capable of a cure if needed).
Plus, I'll have to wait for the "wake-up" of the "official support" to beg a TSW player copy (usually once in 24 hours, more the week-end, unless maybe there is some necessity for criticizing my poor attitude).
BUT believe me on that, your help is really appreciated !

[ZombyWoof]

One difference here is that BITR are delivering more than a collection of soundsets. They have bundled a licensed Wusik-based player for those people who do not have WusikStation. WilliamK has only just released WS4 and I think their player is WS2-based if I remember correctly. So anyone developing presets for ET on WS4 will create problems if they use features not included in the BITR-supplied VSTi. The presets should ideally be created in ET to avoid compatibility problems. Reading between the lines, this may be a big contributor to the problem here. If this is the case, harryson is correct when he says it is not an ET issue.

You have 3 components here:
1. Instrument - based on different Wusik engine versions - not interchangeable
2. Soundsets - should be ideally playable in both products
3. Presets - should be made on and matched to the target instrument (ET in this case)

BITR has positioned their product for their player and not to support the latest WS4 features.

harryson, correct me if I'm wrong.

[sirbellog]

[quote="ZombyWoof"]BITR has positioned their product for their player and not to support the latest WS4 features.
quote]

ZombyWoof,
Please go the Ethnotronics page on BITR's site, and tell me if it does not take a really biiiiggg "reading between the lines" to assume that.
I would have been quite fine if I had got an opportunity to know, and then to keep away from ET, because it was clearly stated as 99,5% player-dependant and 0,5% generic-WS compatible.....
And is it said on the page that what you get is mainly TSL templates and a small handfull of hastly made presets rather than a real, worked out library of dedicated programs ?
In this case, no problem, I'd have decided to wait untill and if a "WS multi-format" was released.
But no way, when you read the page, it's at best, misleading. You don't have a real chance to avoid the trap. Fortunately, and hopefully, now, other WS3 users will know.
It's only after the fact, and with a lot of posts (believe me, I prefer to hit my blacks and whites way more than my keyboards keys), that we finally learn that issue.
And that is what, combined with some (IMHO) "loose" support, that I regret here.

[ZombyWoof]

I think their web page is clear enough. They deliver a Wusikengine v1/v2 VSTi and the ET samples. They say that their soundsets are compatible with WusikStation, ManyStation, et al.

There is no mention of presets that I see, and those presets are what seem to be causing the problem now, probably because they were not created using the ET VSTi. This is strictly a blind technical guess. If so, the problem will be easily solved with correctly made presets.

If I try to load certain WS4 presets into WS2 or WS3, I see similar issues.