Newbie Question: Finding the key

[Madrayken]

So... after too many years of ignorance, smuggery and resolute stubbornness, I've succumbed to sense, decided that Mozart probably was quite a bright chap, and started learning music theory. I see it as my only salvation; the one thing that'll allow me to write something other than ambient drone or bad 80s cheese. I have a good musical ear, but tone-deaf hands, apparently.

As part of my learnings, I've started trying to figure out the key signatures of various tracks. And I really struggle. Here's an example:



I think it's in Gmaj. The way I went about figuring this out was to listen to every blasted note in the piece ("I *think* that's an A#") and then go through every major and (natural) minor key I could think of until I found one where I hit all the notes I'd written down, and... uh... it felt right. This seems... clumsy and inaccurate. So, two questions:-

1) Am I right? Is it Gmaj?
2) Is there a more scientific or correct way to do this? Am I an idiot to even try this with someone like Eno (somehow, finding out the key of a Mozart piece seemed a bit like cheating)?

Any help or mockery gratefully received. My ultimate aim is to write a 30 seconds string piece with some genuine emotion in it. At this moment I seem an awfully long way off.

[m0j0byrd]

Perhaps this can help, thats if you've willing to part with some cash.
http://www.cognitone.com/products/nav/intro/page.stml

as discussed here:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... sc&start=0

[BosseJo]

I think it's safe to say it's in G major. In popular music you can listen for the last chord in the song, end chord=key, and often the music also starts with this chord. But it's not foolproof, that's especially true for jazz and also classical music.
I think your way is actually the best way - listen and trust your ears.

[Nystul]

I came up with F minor on the Eno piece. But I'm kind of tone deaf with these thick pads, so I could be wrong.

The key of a song is established immediately. If you have a chord progression, the first chord is always going to identify the key. A blues in A minor could have many different chord progressions, but the first chord will always be Am. So if you can find where the main part of a song starts, and pick out the chord that fits at that starting point, you can identify the key of the song. Usually your best bet is to listen down to the bass part and find that first bass note.

Songs can change keys too, so you have to be careful about that.

You can't pick out a key signature by identifying every single note in a song, because a lot of times there are accidentals.

[stayne]

Only way I can seem to compose anything emotional is to drop in a choir

http://www.strafed.net/audio/goodbye.mp3

Anyway, go to the following site and have a listen...especially to 'End Credits'. This guy's work moves me on many different levels.

http://www.robertferrari.com/compositions_robersite.htm

[BosseJo]

The key of a song is established immediately. If you have a chord progression, the first chord is always going to identify the key.

No that's not true. In rock and pop and other less complicated music it is often true that the first chord identifies the key and more often, the last chord. But you can never be sure that the first chord always is going to identify the key.

And I definitely don't think the Eno piece is in Fminor.

[Madrayken]

Regarding the Harmony software; I'm not sure I even *want* a technological solution at this point, unless it really helps learning the basics rather than skipping over them.

Thanks for the Ferrari reference, Stayne - I've now got a bit more source material to pick apart... and orchestration to envy.

[JumpingJackFlash]

So... after too many years of ignorance, smuggery and resolute stubbornness, I've succumbed to sense, decided that Mozart probably was quite a bright chap, and started learning music theory. I see it as my only salvation; the one thing that'll allow me to write something other than ambient drone or bad 80s cheese. I have a good musical ear, but tone-deaf hands, apparently.

As part of my learnings, I've started trying to figure out the key signatures of various tracks. And I really struggle. Here's an example:



I think it's in Gmaj. The way I went about figuring this out was to listen to every blasted note in the piece ("I *think* that's an A#") and then go through every major and (natural) minor key I could think of until I found one where I hit all the notes I'd written down, and... uh... it felt right. This seems... clumsy and inaccurate. So, two questions:-

1) Am I right? Is it Gmaj?
2) Is there a more scientific or correct way to do this? Am I an idiot to even try this with someone like Eno (somehow, finding out the key of a Mozart piece seemed a bit like cheating)?

My following posts may be of some use:

Sharps, Flats and how to work out Keys
An Introduction to Key-Signatures

And if you're serious about this stuff, I definitely recommend starting with Bach, Mozart and other 18th century composers. - Their keys will (generally) be much easier to identify than modern stuff, which can sometimes be modal, very chromatic, without key, changing key very rapidly, or in many keys at once! (Sometimes the oldies will do this too mind).