KVR Audio

Madrayken · Post by **Madrayken** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:42 pm

I'm having difficulty with the 'ii' (Bmin) of the A natural minor key. In most representations I've seen, it's represented as iio, or a diminished minor chord (presumably to fit in with the standard 'triad on white keys only' shape).

However - this sounds horrible! I can't think why you'd have this as part of your chord progression as opposed to an un-diminished Bmin! Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for any help.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:55 pm

Borrow the iimin7b5 from the Harmonic Minor. If anyone asks, tell 'em it's a modal interchange chord.

Madrayken · Post by **Madrayken** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:50 pm

So, as you flattened that 5th, that's the same diminished minor with an additional 7th? (Not being sarcastic - I'm new at this).

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:16 pm

Indeed it is. If you prefer the bmin chord, though, go for it. It sometimes works to do that, since borrowing from the Dorian/melodic minor to use the iim chord doesn't necessarily do anything to the tonal center. That is to say, the diminished vii chord is important because it resolves to the tonic; making it anything but a diminished chord seriously weakens this resolution. The diminished ii chord, however, would "resolve" to the III, which you may not want... so throwing in the Major 6th of the scale to make it a iim chord rather than a iio chord can yield good results.

Madrayken · Post by **Madrayken** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:39 pm

Thanks for the help!

Now I just have to figure out why I'm finding (Dm) VI -> i resolution packs more power than a classical V -> I (I'm studying 'Walking in the air' from the Snowman as a personal project in minor keys).

So much to learn...

pj geerlings · Post by **pj geerlings** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:34 pm

I believe the ascending melodic minor scale comes to the rescue here, does it not?

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:51 pm

Madrayken wrote:Thanks for the help!

Now I just have to figure out why I'm finding (Dm) VI -> i resolution packs more power than a classical V -> I (I'm studying 'Walking in the air' from the Snowman as a personal project in minor keys).

So much to learn...

Because you're (probably) playing the "diatonic" minor V... change it to the major V (harmonic minor) and that progression becomes much stronger.

Madrayken · Post by **Madrayken** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:42 pm

Ah! Spot on. Harmonic minor changes things considerably. Much better.

Thanks!

JumpingJackFlash · Post by **JumpingJackFlash** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:57 pm

Madrayken wrote:I'm having difficulty with the 'ii' (Bmin) of the A natural minor key. In most representations I've seen, it's represented as iio, or a diminished minor chord (presumably to fit in with the standard 'triad on white keys only' shape).

However - this sounds horrible! I can't think why you'd have this as part of your chord progression as opposed to an un-diminished Bmin! Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for any help.

A chord is either diminished, or it is minor. It cannot be a "diminished minor".
Minor triads have a 'Minor 3rd' and a 'Perfect 5th' above the root, so they consist of a minor third followed by a major third.
Diminished triads have a 'Minor 3rd' and a 'Diminished 5th' above the root, so they consist of two minor thirds.

The second chord in any minor key is always diminished (with the exception of the ascending melodic minor).

Try using the chord in first inversion, that is, with the 3rd as the lowest note, and it will sound better.

Or, if you must use it in root position, try the progresison iv-ii-V.
Add a (diatonic) seventh, and it makes the chord even better.

A minor chord progressions