Hardware instrument appreciation thread

[D-Fusion]

first explain what a "real song" is...

Ok.
In a song with other synths
I am tired so a few typo's will be in place at kvr tonight
The Modular synth i played had so strong/powerfull sound that it would require alot of Equalizing to make it fit in a song/mix.

[Chuck E. Jesus]

first explain what a "real song" is...

Ok.
In a song with other synths
I am tired so a few typo's will be in place at kvr tonight
The Modular synth i played had so strong/powerfull sound that it would require alot of Equalizing to make it fit in a song/mix.

well, there are usually filters and a variety of waveforms to choose from, and you don't have to stack eight oscs in every patch either ...plus the beauty of a good modular is it can be drums/bass/leads/sfx/whatever, not just a big funny organ...

[D-Fusion]

Oh shit and i who was thinking that 10 detuned oscillators was a minnimum these days

[kritikon]

Don't you just think that hw instruments sound so much better? They have certain fullness and deepness to their sound. Some call it "punch", others "character". Express your thoughts for and against in this matter here!

Sorry...I didn't read all the intervening pages, but I assume this chap is the latest troll at KvR or somesuch. Because it's such a stupid thing to say on so many levels.

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

first explain what a "real song" is...

probably he means: not a group of unuseful tracks you are using for quickly checking a product, but during a real mixing session.

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

I wouldn't base any buying decisions on SOS reviews. They've written bullshit far too often to take them serious IMHO.

I stopped buying those mags a long time ago tbh.Well since i discovered kvr.This site has helped me a lot and,ironically has lead to hardware well, through trying many different software hosts and vsts;i've been able to get a better and more honest appraisal from people on this site and often that went against what the reviews say in the magazines said.S i've tried out the good hosts and vsts and i've come to the conclusion that i don't like working itb,no matter how good the software.I recently got a novation remote zero and it makes things a lot better but i'm still f'n around with a mouse.But the workflow is a lot faster.Point is,get a good control surface for your daw!

I don't want to defend magazine reviewers here, but sometimes when a new product is available and raises the bar again you are rather excited and the article is too much positive. And there is not so much time for really checking every point, for example in the past I needed 2 years for understanding what were the limits of my roland/akai/kuzweil samplers.

I remember an article where someone (I dont' remember the magazine) said that the arturia CS80v was exacly like the original. I was excited too and a bit fooled. But I understand the reason: that virtual synthesizer was not like the original, but who cares, it was at that time a good product.

At the moment just assume that a perfect software emulation is impossible in 95% of the cases, so you can't go wrong but there are so many good products around and ooooh... they are improving and improving every day and are a real revolution. All that heavy gear lives inside a common laptop.

[hoffy]

<snip> whatever it was about hardware being better

Nonsense. Absolute and complete bollocks. I doubt there's a person on this thread who hasn't owned or played a hardware synth. The overwhelming majority will have at least one.

I didn't say a thing about people on this thread owning hardware synths- but the people on this forum. It is a website for plug-ins after all... so it would make sense that the people on this forum are more interested in software than hardware.

Not the most difficult concept.

Here's my list (and this is just what I still have)...<snip>

No one cares what synths you have, but i hope you feel better now that you have had a chance to tell everyone

The Pro-One's nice. The K5000s is wonderful.

Thanks for the review, are you a journalist?

Any other "technical bullshitters" in this thread want to tell this idiot what synths they own?

Couldn't care a less but go on, everyone blab about what you've got...

Oh yeah and I saw this load of snobbish bullshit you posted earlier...

For me personally doing the course allowed me to hear the difference between cheap gear and expensive gear- if you don't have a chance to listen high-quality outboard, in an acoustically tailored environment, and can only download synthedit compressors to use on your hi-fi speakers acting as monitors... how are you ever really going to know how good something can sound?

Snobbish? I don't know what fuckin' context you think you have read that in, but someone asked what peoples experiences were in audio engineering schools, and that was mine- that i didn't have access to well-stocked studios, and having the chance to use them was invaluable. Unfortunately, not everyone is going to have access to professional gear or have the opportunity to compare monitors to their hi-fi speakers.

And those comments weren't directed at anyone but the original poster, and were relevant to the topic at hand (which your post obviously isn't).

Not taking too much offense at the Synthedit quip, are you?

Well I monitor through hi-fi equipment - a Krell KSA200B power amp and a pair of Apogee Caliper full range ribbons. I don't care what f**king studio equipment you've used, as a high definition monitoring system it pales in comparison to that.

Mabye it does, mabye it doesn't- firstly it's subjective, secondly i don't care, and thirdly for someone who is arguing how good software is it's strange you like to name drop how good your "hi-fi" equipment is...

Unfortunately i don't really feel like justifying my comments with an inventory of my equipment, nor do i think that all the other posters who have listed their hardware synths have opinions (and yes, they are just that- opinions, and not facts) that are any more valid than anyone elses.

Furthur more, you're only really backing up the point i made in that post- you're obviously quite fond of your "high-definition monitoring system", and given you're name dropping said high-definition monitoring system, and claiming it is better than whatever i have used (without actually knowing what that is), it seems quite ironic you're calling me snobbish!

You ought to remember that this place isn't just full of little tarnce wannabees.

I really don't see the relevance of this comment at all.

Moving on...

STFU I thnk you don't know shit about anything to say things like that, KvR is not another kiddie forum you know, we're adults and unlike you, we were born before 1985

Wow are you easily offended or what? oh and retarded as well: "I thnk you don't know shit about anything to say things like that", i mean what the f**k is that actually supposed to mean?

I was born before 1985, but don't fool yourself into thinking this is an "adult" forum, obviously by your above comments i would suggest KvR is NOT full of the most intelligent specimens.

And...

Any other "technical bullshitters" in this thread want to tell this idiot what synths they own?

I have owned:

Nord Lead 2X
Korg Electribe EA1
Roland SH-32
Roland D110
Roland MC09

Wow what an impressive list that is, it must have taken you all day to compile it.

I have played with a huge modular analog many times but the sound is to heavy to be used in a real song (for solo playing it is the bomb).

Well there's an extremely valuable and informed opinion if ever i have seen one, so wonderful in fact i'm going to quote it again for the benefit of all the adults in here:

I have played with a huge modular analog many times but the sound is to heavy to be used in a real song (for solo playing it is the bomb).

Mabye the reason the huge modular analog is "to heavy" to be used in a "real song" (incidentally, is the huge modular analog "to heavy" for a fake song?) is because you don't have any engineering skills, or perhaps because you aren't using nuffinks "Krell KSA200B power amp and a pair of Apogee Caliper full range ribbons"

I agree that Hardware sounds great when you are playing it solo, but in a mix it does'nt make any difference.

Your opinion is worthless.

I have owned and/or still own:
nord lead
nord micro modular
syntechno teebee
jv80
xv 5050
jv1080
mc505 and 303
sp 202, 303, 808
electribe er1 and esx1
dx7, dx 21 tx81z
jx3p, mks50
trinity
fantom
virus rack
tr 707 and 606
ef303 (fx/basline)
korg analog monster(cannot remember the name, it had strings, brass and synth sections)
clavinet, rhodes, wurlitzer, 4 organs(m100, etc)
solina string machine(or was it a honer?)
kaos pads 2 and 3
and all hardware fx to fx those oldies(comprpesors, verbs, delays, distortion...)

so unlike the bullshitter above, people here used real gear

This is still primarily a forum for software plug-ins. Obviously people here use "real gear" (as opposed to what, fake gear?)

Still find it strange how I say i think hardware is better and then the people who don't agree feel the need to stocktake what they own (and have owned (!!!)) to justify their own opinions.

[cassus]

I don't really see why there should be a competition here.. Pretty much everyone in here uses a software DAW without question. I only have one HW synth myself, which is the Korg RADIAS. And i love it bigtime. That in combination with my kaoss pad offers tons and tons of fun. However, it is a a virtual analog. Read = Software Synth. Whats the difference? the software is in a prettier box, and you get knobs and all that good stuff. It's also 1200 bucks worth of stuff. a software synth that sits on your harddrive with no hands-on tweakability except the mouse or whatever generic midi control surface you have... 100 bucks and up.. You get A LOT of good (and i mean radias/virus/whatever quality) synths on your mac/pc for 1200 bucks.

I do prefer hardware so far though, just cause i really really like the knobs and no latency/cpu load. That being said though, the routing and so forth is more cumbersome and tedious. Also, you can not have multiple instances of your hardware synths. Or you can but not at the cost of one So yeah.. I know I'll buy more hardware, but i also know I'll buy more software. I do like effects better as vsti's. The less cables i have to send audio through, the better. Good cables aren't exactly free.

Ooh, one more thing. The first thing im gonna buy is software. Freaking Truepianos demo is about to expire, and that just won't do!

[nuffink]

<snip> whatever it was about hardware being better

Nonsense. Absolute and complete bollocks. I doubt there's a person on this thread who hasn't owned or played a hardware synth. The overwhelming majority will have at least one.

I didn't say a thing about people on this thread owning hardware synths- but the people on this forum. It is a website for plug-ins after all... so it would make sense that the people on this forum are more interested in software than hardware.

Not the most difficult concept.

Here's my list (and this is just what I still have)...<snip>

No one cares what synths you have, but i hope you feel better now that you have had a chance to tell everyone

The Pro-One's nice. The K5000s is wonderful.

Thanks for the review, are you a journalist?

Any other "technical bullshitters" in this thread want to tell this idiot what synths they own?

Couldn't care a less but go on, everyone blab about what you've got...

Oh yeah and I saw this load of snobbish bullshit you posted earlier...

For me personally doing the course allowed me to hear the difference between cheap gear and expensive gear- if you don't have a chance to listen high-quality outboard, in an acoustically tailored environment, and can only download synthedit compressors to use on your hi-fi speakers acting as monitors... how are you ever really going to know how good something can sound?

Snobbish? I don't know what fuckin' context you think you have read that in, but someone asked what peoples experiences were in audio engineering schools, and that was mine- that i didn't have access to well-stocked studios, and having the chance to use them was invaluable. Unfortunately, not everyone is going to have access to professional gear or have the opportunity to compare monitors to their hi-fi speakers.

And those comments weren't directed at anyone but the original poster, and were relevant to the topic at hand (which your post obviously isn't).

Not taking too much offense at the Synthedit quip, are you?

Well I monitor through hi-fi equipment - a Krell KSA200B power amp and a pair of Apogee Caliper full range ribbons. I don't care what f**king studio equipment you've used, as a high definition monitoring system it pales in comparison to that.

Mabye it does, mabye it doesn't- firstly it's subjective, secondly i don't care, and thirdly for someone who is arguing how good software is it's strange you like to name drop how good your "hi-fi" equipment is...

Unfortunately i don't really feel like justifying my comments with an inventory of my equipment, nor do i think that all the other posters who have listed their hardware synths have opinions (and yes, they are just that- opinions, and not facts) that are any more valid than anyone elses.

Furthur more, you're only really backing up the point i made in that post- you're obviously quite fond of your "high-definition monitoring system", and given you're name dropping said high-definition monitoring system, and claiming it is better than whatever i have used (without actually knowing what that is), it seems quite ironic you're calling me snobbish!

You ought to remember that this place isn't just full of little tarnce wannabees.

I really don't see the relevance of this comment at all.

Moving on...

STFU I thnk you don't know shit about anything to say things like that, KvR is not another kiddie forum you know, we're adults and unlike you, we were born before 1985

Wow are you easily offended or what? oh and retarded as well: "I thnk you don't know shit about anything to say things like that", i mean what the f**k is that actually supposed to mean?

I was born before 1985, but don't fool yourself into thinking this is an "adult" forum, obviously by your above comments i would suggest KvR is NOT full of the most intelligent specimens.

And...

Any other "technical bullshitters" in this thread want to tell this idiot what synths they own?

I have owned:

Nord Lead 2X
Korg Electribe EA1
Roland SH-32
Roland D110
Roland MC09

Wow what an impressive list that is, it must have taken you all day to compile it.

I have played with a huge modular analog many times but the sound is to heavy to be used in a real song (for solo playing it is the bomb).

Well there's an extremely valuable and informed opinion if ever i have seen one, so wonderful in fact i'm going to quote it again for the benefit of all the adults in here:

I have played with a huge modular analog many times but the sound is to heavy to be used in a real song (for solo playing it is the bomb).

Mabye the reason the huge modular analog is "to heavy" to be used in a "real song" (incidentally, is the huge modular analog "to heavy" for a fake song?) is because you don't have any engineering skills, or perhaps because you aren't using nuffinks "Krell KSA200B power amp and a pair of Apogee Caliper full range ribbons"

I agree that Hardware sounds great when you are playing it solo, but in a mix it does'nt make any difference.

Your opinion is worthless.

I have owned and/or still own:
nord lead
nord micro modular
syntechno teebee
jv80
xv 5050
jv1080
mc505 and 303
sp 202, 303, 808
electribe er1 and esx1
dx7, dx 21 tx81z
jx3p, mks50
trinity
fantom
virus rack
tr 707 and 606
ef303 (fx/basline)
korg analog monster(cannot remember the name, it had strings, brass and synth sections)
clavinet, rhodes, wurlitzer, 4 organs(m100, etc)
solina string machine(or was it a honer?)
kaos pads 2 and 3
and all hardware fx to fx those oldies(comprpesors, verbs, delays, distortion...)

so unlike the bullshitter above, people here used real gear

This is still primarily a forum for software plug-ins. Obviously people here use "real gear" (as opposed to what, fake gear?)

Still find it strange how I say i think hardware is better and then the people who don't agree feel the need to stocktake what they own (and have owned (!!!)) to justify their own opinions.

Nice effort. A bit like a Fisher-Price version of whyterabbyt.

[jupiter8]

Take the Pepsi challenge.
http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?lan ... emid=25669

Ok so DigiDesign did this so they probably scewed it in some way so the difference isn't as big,to make their system look better.
But since hardware compressors and EQs are soooo superiour to software you can still clearly pick them out anyways. Good luck.

[Sam@Megablastic]

MAn if I had to list all the analogs and hardware synths I use I'd be here a while, I'll give it a go....

MiniMoog D
Welsh MiniMoog (with PWM added)
Studio Electronics SE-1
Studio Electronics SE-1X
Yamaha CS-30
Yamaha CS-15
Yamaha CS-10
Yamaha CS-15 (ok ...so I like the CS series he he)
Virus ti rack
Virus B Indigo
Emu E-64
Emu E-5000 Ultra
Emu Esi-32
Emu Esi-2000
Emu Emulator 3
Emu Emax 2
Akai S-950
Ensoniq Sq-80
Ensoniq Esq-1 (5 of the buggers as they keep on breaking)
Crumar Multiman
Akai AX-73
Roland D-50
Roland SH-09
Roland Jupiter 8
Roland Jupiter 4
Roland Tb-303 (I keep buying them cheap then selling them lol)
Roland MC-202
Korg DW-6000
Korg MS-20
Mutron Bi Phaser
Small Stone Phaser
Kawai K-4
Korg Micro Korg
Alesis Ion (hated that synth)
Alesis Andromeda (had it a week then sold it)
Oberheim OBMXA (spent a week trying to tune the whole thing in lol)
Creamware Pulsar and all the synths
Roland JP-8000
Oscar (long time ago)
Sequential Circuits Multitrak
Sequential Circuits Sampler thing
Korg Z1 (never really liked that)

I'm sure I've had a few more I've forgotten about, but I still feel and I'm not saying that I am right and you are all wrong....but I feel that software lags behind hardware, mainly analog though.

Sampling the analog synths works fine for me, I sample my live noodlings and it keeps all the goodness in the bass. Emulating analogs using virtual oscilators just feels like skimmed milk instead of full fat milk to my ears.
The filters can be modelled pretty close, but the osc allways lack.

[Sam@Megablastic]

Take the Pepsi challenge.
http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?lan ... emid=25669

Ok so DigiDesign did this so they probably scewed it in some way so the difference isn't as big,to make their system look better.
But since hardware compressors and EQs are soooo superiour to software you can still clearly pick them out anyways. Good luck.

Compressors yes, eq I have trouble telling the difference between a really good digital eq and a good analog one. Phasers are the easiest to tell the difference between.

[living sounds]

Just listened to the digidesign stuff. It's true, in this case the differences are rather small. It's obvious however, that these examples are designed to make digi look good.

But, if they'd done the test with a multed RnB kickdrum, heavy compression and lot's of EQ, the way it's done all the time, with sounds that aren't ideal from the start, it's become very obvious.

[exonerate]

for some reason i've just wasted half an hour reading this thread, so i may as well post.

i don't get this hardware sounds better than software, what hardware? and what software?

this would imply that what is being said is anything in a box that use's knobs to control is better than something else in a box that is controlled with a mouse. it doesn't make any sense digital is digital, and a hardware synth that uses a dedicated chip to process sound is in effect no different to a PC CPU, and will not magically make it sound better.(because it a dedicated chip)

it's the algorithims and implementation that make the sound not the chip or the electronics that run it. a PC is hardware so whats the difference? i don't get it.

put it this way as far as i'm concerned if you implemented the exact same algorithims and set up of a digital hardware synth on a pc they would sound exactly the same. i can't see any reason at all why they would not, unless someone can enlighten me?

cheers

exo

[mkdr]

for some reason i've just wasted half an hour reading this thread, so i may as well post.

i don't get this hardware sounds better than software, what hardware? and what software?

this would imply that what is being said is anything in a box that use's knobs to control is better than something else in a box that is controlled with a mouse. it doesn't make any sense digital is digital, and a hardware synth that uses a dedicated chip to process sound is in effect no different to a PC CPU, and will not magically make it sound better.(because it a dedicated chip)

it's the algorithims and implementation that make the sound not the chip or the electronics that run it. a PC is hardware so whats the difference? i don't get it.

put it this way as far as i'm concerned if you implemented the exact same algorithims and set up of a digital hardware synth on a pc they would sound exactly the same. i can't see any reason at all why they would not, unless someone can enlighten me?

cheers

exo

This thread isnt here because math on a chip works different than math on another chip. It's here because some think that hw synths sound better and some dont. Nothing to do with "how things could be" or "how processor architecture doesn't change the output", etc. Yes quite propably it's the algos and implementation that make the difference. That still doesn't change the fact hw synths do sound different(way better? or worse?) whan sw synths. That's it. Nothing more. And that's what needs to be discussed here as people seem to have pretty biased beliefs. The point of all this is not to decide on wether the opinion i have is right or wrong, but to keep the "related" conversation here(and not start flaming on every possible thread that don't have anything to do with hw synths). Venturing off to mixing and effects is kinda off-topic, but there seems to be good examples of hw stuff sounding quite nice too. This should still be about synths.

Cheers