Why do drum modules use "modeling" instead of "real" samples

[soulata]

...slightly overweight drummer with moderate to high blood alcohol, trace blood THC, played in a medium sized wood panelled room on an overcast day...

Nice way to describe some of your customers Angus. I'll have you know, I rarely drink, don't have a panelled room, and I doubt my THC levels would be considered "trace".

You're really taking it way too personally. IMO.

k

[beej]

This is from www.sweetwater.com, but I know I've seen it elsewhere, so I assumed it was a Company line:

"If you've never experienced Roland's COSM technology, you might actually be wondering what all the fuss is about. Essentially, COSM is a process that allows virtual instruments to be built without any samples being involved. Highly complex mathematical formulas (and some top secret Roland magic) produce sounds that are so real, you'll be totally blown away".

Yeah, but that sounds to me more like marketing/sales weasel speak, rather than official company copy. IE the sales people jumped on the same assumptions the magazine guys did.

Here's some copy from Roland's website:

"Many of the sounds in the TD-12, from drums to cymbals, are COSM modeled for the ultimate in expression and realism."

Other stuff:

"Roland is proud to announce the V-drums TD-10, a revolutionary top-of-the-line electronic percussion sound module complimenting Roland's acclaimed Compact Drum System. Utilizing Composite Object Sound Modeling (COSM) - the same technology found in the precedent-setting VG-8 V-Guitar System - Roland has developed a sound source for the V-drums that far surpasses any existing PCM-based technology. The result is Variable Drum Modeling, which not only provides drummers with an unprecedented level of control and expressiveness in sound creation, but also gives them the responsiveness of an acoustic drum set."

"Composite Object Sound Modeling (COSM)
When a musical instrument generates sound vibrations, they reach the human ear through various mediating objects, each of which affects sonic perception. The material and construction of the instrument, the electric/electronic/magnetic amplifying system, air and the reverberation of the room all affect the final sound.

Sound modeling, the latest DSP technology, "virtually" reconstructs these objects in the "sound chain". Roland's innovative Composite Object Sound Modeling (COSM) uses the advantages of multiple modeling methods to accurately emulate existing sounds and create totally new ones.

After the success of the COSM-based VG-8 V-Guitar System and the GP-100 Guitar Preamp/Effects Processors, Roland engineers focused on the needs of drummers and programmers to develop the Variable Drum Modeling technology employed in the V-drums. The combination of Roland's COSM technology and proven electronic percussion expertise ensures that the V-drums will set an industry standard."

As I said, they are careful *not* expressly mention samples, they just say that some sounds are COSM modelled. It's the other guys that jumped to the conclusion that these sounds were *generated* by a modelling process - they are not, the source for them is samples, and then there are some modelling parameters on top of those. Very different thing...

[sweet_trip]

I dont know anything about VDrums and physical modeling, but I get the impression that if the VDrums were really 100% synthesis based with no samples it would be a bit more expensive.
But i've been fortunate enough to play a TD20 several times and to me the sounds do not sound like synthesis at all.
And i also get the impression that COSM is nothing more than a library of algos and synthesis overblown to be made to look like a breakthrough in science. I'm pretty sure that their COSM-based amp models are impulse based, just like Line6 and Vox.

I like the TD20, i think it sounds good. but i'm not a discriminating drummer... i'm not a drummer period, lol

[stephenpaulharper]

Yeah, but that sounds to me more like marketing/sales weasel speak, rather than official company copy. IE the sales people jumped on the same assumptions the magazine guys did.

Agreed. I've never doubted you - it just boggles my mind any acoustic sample would be tweaked towards that end result.

...I like the TD20, i think it sounds good. but i'm not a discriminating drummer... i'm not a drummer period, lol...

Yeah, but that doesn't mean you're not a discriminating listener. I should add that many Edrummers are quite happy with their samples. Some however are not, and use replacement kits by a company called Vexpressions who also use COSM modeling with Roland's permission. I'll allow that these sound better than the standard Roland kits, but still nowhere near as realistic as good software, IMHO. It's a personal thing - some people think Roland/Vexpression kits sound great. I'm just not in that camp.

Steve

[john emrich]

Check this out -

http://www.the-freddy.com/drums.html

The BFD Turbo Receptor has proven itself on the road. Since it is pre-loaded, it is very easy to operate as soon as you get it. Drummers now have a choice of what they want sit behind. I have used this with most of the edrum sets available with great results. The cool thing is that the end user can upgrade it however they want, in any direction.

(By the way, I would not be so sure that Xdrums is out of buisness. They did not violate any of Roland's designs.)