Genre Angst! Trip-Hop: Only its hairdresser knows for sure!

[Johnny Cherry]

[mod edit: This post and those that follow were split from a thread in the Production Techniques forum, to keep it from veering way off topic and keep Coxy's original thread useful. The on-topic thread on Trip-hop techniques is at http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2689682 . I tried not to split off posts that were actually relevant to production techniques, but if I made a mistake please feel free to re-post in the on-topic thread with my apologies. Mef ]


Whoever said trip hop had nothing to do with hip hop beats, you what mate? As people have said artists like Portishead and even Dj Shadow where lumped into this so-called genre and both have really obvious hip hop influences. I know people like to down play hip hop as a respectable form of music on this site even though its helped pioneer production techniques and was and still is a major influence to a lot of dance music, but to say Trip Hop had nothing to do with Hip Hop until someone put the word Hop on the end is a little ignorant. Anyway as a point of interest is "Trip Hop" still going today haven't heard the word in years? In terms of instrumental Hip Hop I still check for Sixtoo and the whatever the Bully label put out but not really aware of much else these days.

[deastman]

Whoever said trip hop had nothing to do with hip hop beats, you what mate? As people have said artists like Portishead and even Dj Shadow where lumped into this so-called genre and both have really obvious hip hop influences. I know people like to down play hip hop as a respectable form of music on this site even though its helped pioneer production techniques and was and still is a major influence to a lot of dance music, but to say Trip Hop had nothing to do with Hip Hop until someone put the word Hop on the end is a little ignorant. Anyway as a point of interest is "Trip Hop" still going today haven't heard the word in years? In terms of instrumental Hip Hop I still check for Sixtoo and the whatever the Bully label put out but not really aware of much else these days.

I really hesitated before making that statement, because I don't want to derail this thread into an argument about hip hip. I can see the commonality between Portishead and DJ Shadow, but I've always felt that DJ Shadow had more in common with turntablists such as QBert and Kid Koala, while Portishead has far more in common with the likes of Air.

I find contemporary mainstream hip hop devoid of any value whatsoever, but I feel the same way about most contemporary mainstream music in other genres as well. I liked many of the early hip hop pioneers, but the grassroots cultural movement which they created has been entirely co-opted by corporate interests. And look, here I am, derailing the thread with an assault on hip hop, just like I said I didn't want to! Rather than turn this into an argument, lets just agree that I'm some uninformed aging white guy who knows nothing of contemporary hip hop or its influence on artists such as Portishead, Massive Attack, Tricky, and DJ Shadow (all of whom I do actually listen to and own their CDs).

[polyslax]

I don't listen to much music, and as far as I know I don't own any trip hop, yet I've certainly heard Portishead, and I think I naturally gravitate toward the aesthetic of trip hop - I like to write down tempo with some acoustic flavour, epiano or piano, bit of a jazzy feel, also love deep reverbs and dubby delays. These things signal trip hop to me, but what do I know?

A recent track of mine that I think embodies a trip hop feel is here:

What Once Was

Without vox, of course, I'm only part way there... anybody want to sing over this?

[kyrre]

for what it's worth, i agree with john cherry there. triphop is just an offshoot of hiphop, where the poetry is cut out and replaced with more electronic vibes.

polyslax, awesome track man

[Coxy]

I really hesitated before making that statement, because I don't want to derail this thread into an argument about hip hip. I can see the commonality between Portishead and DJ Shadow, but I've always felt that DJ Shadow had more in common with turntablists such as QBert and Kid Koala, while Portishead has far more in common with the likes of Air.

I find contemporary mainstream hip hop devoid of any value whatsoever, but I feel the same way about most contemporary mainstream music in other genres as well. I liked many of the early hip hop pioneers, but the grassroots cultural movement which they created has been entirely co-opted by corporate interests. And look, here I am, derailing the thread with an assault on hip hop, just like I said I didn't want to! Rather than turn this into an argument, lets just agree that I'm some uninformed aging white guy who knows nothing of contemporary hip hop or its influence on artists such as Portishead, Massive Attack, Tricky, and DJ Shadow (all of whom I do actually listen to and own their CDs).

Unnecessary, and way off topic. Others may ahve been pointing it that way but at least they had something to offer regards my original post too. On public forums everyone wants everyone else to here their opinion, well that's cool that's what makes public forums by their very nature however there's a topic and a place for it all.

Thanks, but no thanks. As the topic stated production techniques. Not your opinion on whats hop and whats not.

Sorry if I seem too brash, but you offered your unbridled opinion so I am offering mine back. This is just asking for someone to come back and dispute your comments about hiphop and then the off topic arguments start. Well I'm nipping it in the bud.

[nuffink]

Portishead is NOT trip hop

[nuffink]

Coming soon

Charlie Parker is NOT Bebop

Bob Marley is NOT Reggae

Ferry Cunstain is NOT tarnce

frequency_algorithm is NOT thick

[vurt]

If you want to learn about trip hop and how to do it you have to listen to the classics.

Start with DJ shadow Entroducing. Don't listen to anything else until you've heard this.

Portishead is NOT trip hop that's downtempo. Anything more jazzy than that is acid jazz. BARELY scrapes the line of triphop.

After that I would say look for DJ krush from Japan. Some of his stuff is jazzy, but mostly ALL his older songs are trip hop.

Some one mentioned sixtoo, he's got some good ones, as does JEL and Meaty Ogre from Galapagos 4. But I think that shit is too advanced for now.

Hopefully after that you won't be putting out generic shit out there in our world, not that you ever did.

theres so much wrong with this post i saved it all for posterity.

[deastman]

Unnecessary, and way off topic. Others may ahve been pointing it that way but at least they had something to offer regards my original post too. On public forums everyone wants everyone else to here their opinion, well that's cool that's what makes public forums by their very nature however there's a topic and a place for it all.

Thanks, but no thanks. As the topic stated production techniques. Not your opinion on whats hop and whats not.

Sorry if I seem too brash, but you offered your unbridled opinion so I am offering mine back. This is just asking for someone to come back and dispute your comments about hiphop and then the off topic arguments start. Well I'm nipping it in the bud.

I posted an apology, because you're right and I'm way off topic. I just went back to check the thread, and my apology has disappeared! Oh well, sorry for derailing the conversation.

[dark_virus]

Sickle -> Yes, I completly forgot Sneaker Pimps. Used to listen 'Spin Spin Sugar' a lot, on a local E-Music radio.

I just personally feel that taking a genre into it's ingredients takes the soul out of it.

Hi Krushing. I was a big fan of your posts at Futureproducers, but I really can't stand that forum anymore!

I respect your opinion, but I'll show a simple example: in my case, it's easy to start a Deep House song and ends with a common House track, because I decided to skip the basic rules. This can be good for the creative flow, but can be frustrating, because I WANTED A DEEP HOUSE SONG.

Sometimes, people only want to make a song that fits in certain genre, and follow basic guidelines (It's different to say "rules") isn't a crime, but a choice. Nobody has the obligation of being new and cool.

The main problem is exactly start to dissecate the music envolved on certain genre, and worst, start to say "X isn't Trance because it's 2BPM less than the oficial Trance standard definited by ISO, FCC, Wikipedia or George W. Bush". To me, it's simply ridiculous.


Only my $0.02.

[bluedad]

Portishead is NOT trip hop that's downtempo. Anything more jazzy than that is acid jazz. BARELY scrapes the line of triphop.

edit - nuffink beat me to it!

[Meloday]

Portishead is NOT trip hop that's downtempo

wow.

[polyslax]

What Once Was

polyslax, awesome track man

Thanks kyrre!

[Sickle]

Portishead didn't almost single-handedly craft the trip-hop genre..?

Wot have I been thinking the last 15+ years..

[frequency_algorithm]

Whatever, you guys think fucken portishead is trip hop just cause they named one of their albums trip hop reconsturction. Whatever, that shit aint trip hop it's fucken downtempo period, aint no trip hop DJs spin that type of shit, everyone who DJ knows you drop that shit with bjork and sneakerpimps and dumb loungey shit like esthero. Give me a break, you can't just go with what rolling stone calls it.