Pedal for VSTs, Guitar & Keyboard... Impossible?

[newbie_here]

Hi!

I was wondering if you guys knew of an expression pedal that works for lets say, a midi keyboard, a guitar multi-FX set like a POD 2.0 and also works for controlling something like the virtual wah of Amplitube?

I'm a bit confused as you can see, since I haven't figured out what a 1/4" TSR input is? Just like a regular "line-in" or...?

Anyway if it could work for a keyboard and somehow also for Amplitube (I think I'm getting it soon, or maybe Guitar Rig, that as that kontrol rig or something, which is too expensive IMO), I'd be satisfied. (Or maybe if its possible to control a "virtual wah" by means of sending the midi through the keyboard or something, I don't know )

Thanks for your time!

PD: I was looking at the Alesis F2 but I am not sure it'll be multi-purpose so to speak.

[JamminFool]

hi.

not sure about which expression pedal,

but TSR = tip, sleeve, ring.

it refers to the double ring at the connector (as opposed to TS = tip, sleeve with a single ring.

TSR is used for stereo and/or balanced signals while TS is used for unbalanced and/or mono signals.

[pethu]

I have a Behringer FCB-1010 pedal rig: 2 expression pedals (very handy for synth control), and 10 stomp pedals. It outputs data through a standard MIDI cable and is fully programmable, although it's a b*gger to program until you get the hang of it. It should work well with any software that has MIDI control input capability. I use with Guitar Rig 2 myself.

I'm afraid I know nothing about the control scheme of PODs, though.

(Oh, and if you get one: Note that most FCB-1010 expression pedals don't seem to work properly out of the box. You have to perform a software reset / calibration routine first!)

PS: Page with picture, instructions for pedal calibration, etc:

http://www.altrion.org/fcb1010/index.html

[pethu]

Oh, I forgot, since I never use'em: It also sports 2 analog 1/4" switch jacks of some type...

[newbie_here]

JamminFool thanks, I guess then my keyboard accepts a regular "line-in" for pedal. How it controls tone and stuff like that beats me.

pethu I see. That is a very recommended pedal, so I have seen, although too expensive for what I am looking for.
In any case, the POD schema I think I'm gonna have to drop.
But then I have keyboard + soft control.

You say you can control guitar rig that way (for example you can use one of the pedals to make a more realistic wah sound, isn't it pethu?).
Since I have no MIDI port anywhere, but my soon new keyboard has MIDI IN/OUT ports (and MIDI merge switch), what would you think would be the effect of plugging it into the MIDI in of the keyboard?

Would it work as a pedal for the keyboard?
Would I be able to control lets say guitar rig that way? Depends on my keyboard? .

What I have seen in cheapie pedals like the Alesis F2 and others is that they don't have midi, just line out... so I'm guessing in order to control software you need a pedal that sends MIDI no matter what, else it will just work for the keyboard and that's it?

Thanks for your time guys!

[tomg]

Oh, I forgot, since I never use'em: It also sports 2 analog 1/4" switch jacks of some type...

+1

It only takes a minuet or two to do it but I bought mine used for less than $90 bucks and pedal calibration had never been done. It's almost like it had never been used. I found a PC midi editor and I'm now in foot controller nirvana.

No Riverdance required...

http://www.mtnsys.com/faq-fcb/PCEditorBeta.htm

IIRC the 1/4" jacks are pedal controlled relays for turning hardware on/off.

[pethu]

You say you can control guitar rig that way (for example you can use one of the pedals to make a more realistic wah sound, isn't it pethu?).

Yep.

Since I have no MIDI port anywhere, but my soon new keyboard has MIDI IN/OUT ports (and MIDI merge switch), what would you think would be the effect of plugging it into the MIDI in of the keyboard?

If that keyboard has an USB MIDI connection for computers, it sounds like you probably could plug a controller like FCB1010 into the MIDI IN connector, merge its data with that of the keyboard, and get it all into the computer that way. But don't qoute me!

If the keyboard only has standard (5-pin) MIDI OUT, then you will need a separate computer MIDI interface hook it up to the computer in any case.

Would it work as a pedal for the keyboard?

You mean would a MIDI-sending pedal be able to control the internal keyboard sounds? Totally depends on the MIDI implementation of the keyboard, i.e. which MIDI Continuous Controller (CC) messages it is designed to recieve.

Would I be able to control lets say guitar rig that way? Depends on my keyboard? .

See above: If The keyboard a) has a standard MIDI IN (5-pin) connector, and can transfer that data to the computer via an USB cable, for example using a "merge" mode, then yes. Otherwise, you would have to get a separate computer MIDI interface.

I think the FCB-1010 would be greatly enhanced by a USB MIDI output option, but there you go: It was primarily designed for use with BEhringer's own V-AMP and other hardware, all of which still uses standard 5-pin MIDI, and not USB.

What I have seen in cheapie pedals like the Alesis F2 and others is that they don't have midi, just line out... so I'm guessing in order to control software you need a pedal that sends MIDI no matter what, else it will just work for the keyboard and that's it?

If you have a keyboard that has an analogue expression pedal input, and that keyboard can output MIDI to the computer, it will most likely send pedal input on to the computer in the form of MIDI foot pedal controller messages. So the keyboard will do the analog-to-midi conversion for you.

[newbie_here]

Man! you are so helpful thanks a lot!

Yes, the keyboard is USB powered, just happens to have those MIDI ports for interacting with other hardware I guess.

The keyboard is just a MIDI controller btw. Not a synth or anything, so regarding the last part, it does have analog pedal input and just outputs MIDI (no internal sound).

This is basically the info on it, referring to the analog pedal input (its like a regular 1/4", or so it seems in the picture)

Controllers [P1], [P2] (foot pedals)

You can connect suitable pedals to these jacks and use them as controllers.
You can assign the desired MIDI messages to these controllers.

MIDI Merge Destination

The PCR-300/500/800 has a MIDI MERGE switch. The MIDI Merge Destination setting specifies the port that will be merged when the MIDI MERGE switch is ON.
The MIDI Merge function is convenient when you've connected an external MIDI controller other than the PCR to the PCR's MIDI IN connector. For example, you could connect another PCR, and use one PCR to control your software synthesizer while using the other PCR to control your DAW software.

Now,

You mean would a MIDI-sending pedal be able to control the internal keyboard sounds? Totally depends on the MIDI implementation of the keyboard, i.e. which MIDI Continuous Controller (CC) messages it is designed to recieve.

Sorry, I meant more like would I be able to control the keyboard expression so to speak this way?
Like, why would my keyboard have a pedal input? If I leave the "i wanna control the wah in amplitube problem" aside, then what is an expression pedal good for? Exactly! That's what I refer when I say if this MIDI pedal would work like any other analog I hook up using the analog port.
Obviously correct me if Im wrong and basically what I think are two different things:
I. Controlling the keyboard's expression, whatever that is, having in mind it has no sound, just midi output.
II. Controlling the wah's effect in amplitube.

Both end up being the same thing since the keyboard only send MIDI and both I & II refer to the fact of sending MIDI to a VSTi ot something, then I guess Im really dumb and in the end I just have 1 problem not two!!

See above: If The keyboard a) has a standard MIDI IN (5-pin) connector, and can transfer that data to the computer via an USB cable, for example using a "merge" mode, then yes.

So basically it is "yes" for this keyboard given the fact it has merge mode?

Now a few last things if you are so kind:

So far we have, analog and midi controllers.
Analog like the ones they recommend in the manual (e.g EV-5, EV-7 for expression and DP-2, BOSS FS-5U for hold though I just want expression, mainly to control wah-like FX in amplitube or whatever I end up getting), and MIDI ones like your Behringer right?

So, having in mind the what I just quoted from the manual and the info I forgot to say the last time...

If I get...

Analog Pedal
1. I will be able to control keyboard's expression (True, since this is the "basic" setup as per the manual)?
2. I will be able to control amplitube's wah. (Likely not)?

MIDI Pedal
1. I will be able to control keyboard's expression (Likely not)?
2. I will be able to control amplitube's wah. (Yes, like you do!)?

If of course like I said I & II are the same thing then obviously this whole topic I could have avoided but as you see before it I had no idea about anything and now at least I am getting a bit on track

Thanks a lot for your time man!!!!

[pethu]

From what that manual says about connecting analog pedals and the ability to hook up external MIDI controllers via the MIDI IN, I can't see any problems with any of the scenarios: MIDI or analog, you will be able to control almost any parameter of any software instrument or effects rack without too much trouble (unless I misunderstand that MIDI MERGE function completely).

The cheapest and most obvious way to go is definitely to buy one or two of the recommended compatible analogue pedals and hook them up to the 1/4" keyboard jacks. Since you can set them up to generate any desired MIDI CC code via the keyboard, they should work with any software that can be controlled via MIDI.

When setting up the keyboard/pedals and software to "talk to each other", in most cases you will have a choice: Either

a) re-train the software functions you are interested in (guitar stack wah-wah, synthesizer volume, or whatever) to respond to the default CCs sent by the pedals, or

b) re-program the keyboard/pedals to send the CCs that the software expects by default. (I usually prefer to re-train the software, rather than constantly changing the set-up of my hardware, but that largely depends on how much software stuff you use versus how easy the hardware is to program.)

The only real advantage with MIDI-only gear like the FCB1010 is that, given a suitable MIDI interface, you can use the unit stand-alone when on the road without having to lug that keyboard around to hook them up. Plus, you get stomp pedals to switch presets and turn effects on and off.

[newbie_here]

Wow man!! Thanks a lot

Agree about the stand-alone part but anyway for the time being I will be just messing around at home.

I will start checking prices now then

Thanks again!!!

[deastman]

As far as I know, this is the cheapest expression pedal around.
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/EXP-main.html

Just plug it into your keyboard and you can map it to control anything you want. It has switchable polarity so it should be compatible with just every keyboard out there.

[newbie_here]

Thanks deastman!

That pedal is dirt cheap!!

I think I'm gonna get it, just hope its compatible as you say, since it has that polarity switch

[deastman]

I have one on its way right now... should be here Wednesday. My main concern is durability, although I'm not planning to work mine very hard.

Roland has made this one, the EV-5, for years, and its probably one of the more durable ones out there (but more expensive).
http://www.rolandus.com/products/produc ... bjectId=54

[newbie_here]

Yeah, the EV-5 is the recommended in the specs (well actually also because its made by roland as well...), but its indeed a bit more expensive and not available in my online retailer

Guess we'll be pedal brothers then
I shall order mine tonight and get it neeeeext week when it goes across the ocean along with my keyboard.. mmm... yummy.

[deastman]

I just wanted to let you know that I got my m-audio ex-p expression pedal today. I plugged it into my Edirol PCR-80 controller, and it worked perfectly on the first try. Within seconds I was doing virtual wah pedal action in Guitar Rig 2. I do have a Pod, but haven't tried it with that yet.

This is the only pedal I've ever used, so I can't really compare the build quality to anything else. I'll just say that it was sturdier than I had expected. It moves smoothly, and has a greater range of rotation than the photos seemed to imply. Overall, I'm quite pleased.