New entry level version of Ableton Live

[deaneager]

I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about it, I'm saying that 1 extra option (which doesn't change the existing options) is surely a good thing for those that it appeals to (like me had I not already had the full version) and is of no consequence for those that it doesn't; and therefore really doesn't warrant over the top comments like..."Charging 150€ for a bad demo is really a shame. For now those greedy musician rippers are blacklisted. Ableton for sure will never see my money."
Ableton should be applauded for giving us more choice, not slagged off for making an extra choice that is not a desirable option for everyone. Surely if it were, then no-one would buy the full fat version. To me it seems pretty clear that Live LE has been 'designed' to appeal to DJ's who want to do something over and above what they can do with conventional hardware and the software that emulates that, but are not tempted by the full version of Live which is £200-£250 more expensive than most DJ software.
Ableton's only 'crime' is that the extra option they've given to consumers is probably only going to appeal to a relatively small sector.

[shamann]

Ableton should be applauded for giving us more choice

And the Coca-Cola Company should be applauded for giving us New Coke.

I don't think what Ableton has done is criminal, but it certainly comes off as cynical. Personally, I would be in the target market for a useful cut-down version of Live, since I'm a host-whore and I like some things about Live in general, but not enough to spend a lot of money on something I'm likely to use once in a very rare while. Live will never, ever in a million years be the main software application I use for music, but I wouldn't mind having it on standby. Sadly the LE version just isn't useful enough to get me to buy it, even at the reasonable price point.

[headquest]

So (shamann) what you basically want is a fourth choice, that specifically meets your needs/wishes.

Fair enough. But there's probably only so many choices they are ever going to offer, and that has just increased from 2 to 3, as deaneager points out.

It's one thing to say "I would have prefered if this third choice had included this and that, but maybe not the other..." ... it's something real different to post some of the really negative over-the-top - and actually quite offensive - stuff that a few people are posting about this. That type of stuff just comes across as bitter/twisted, and is simply unnecessary imho.

[dancerchris]

Basically it comes down to arguing about price point. LE is what it is, and if they sell a bunch at that price great, if not they might drop it to the general entry price point of $99 usd. Why don't we watch and learn.

[Meloday]

well, its tough to really tell how 'fair' this price point is since they haven't released the upgrade price....and they aren't marketing it specifically to the dj:

"Step into computer-based music with more fun and less hassle. Live 6 LE provides a simple interface and the pro-level features you need for recording, songwriting, producing, remixing and DJing".

But still, $500 for the full version? Whew!

For that money i'll take:

Bidule $75
Renoise $70
eXT/XT" $75
Usine $70

= $290

with the extra $210, i'll buy a nice controller...or krishna

[Stargard]

Bidule $75
Renoise $70
eXT/XT" $75
Usine $70

Energy XT1 & 2 (as they come "bundled") and Usine and you are set.
for the rest you can buy a nice controller and a KVR t-shirt.

[deaneager]

well, its tough to really tell how 'fair' this price point is since they haven't released the upgrade price....and they aren't marketing it specifically to the dj:

It's largely irrelevant whether they are or are not marketing to the DJ, but as LE would make a pretty badly crippled sequencer.
As I say, it's largely irrelevant who would find it useful at that pricepoint.
The point I am trying to make takes a simile to illustrate...
If my local supermarket started giving the option of buying a set of forks cheaper than a full cutlery set, I wouldn't start kicking-off saying, "I eat a lot of soup and steak; this offer is f*cking useless, I need at least one knife and 1 spoon. Why are you doing this? I'm gonna take my custom elsewhere!"
No, I'd buy a full cutlery set if I needed it and accept that those who eat TV meals can buy a set of forks if they want to. If my knives and spoons are unavailable or more expensive because of the sudden availability of single forks, then I might have cause for protest; until then I'll save my energy for something worthwhile - like actually using my f*cking cutlery!!!

[thecontrolcentre]

[Meloday]

well, its tough to really tell how 'fair' this price point is since they haven't released the upgrade price....and they aren't marketing it specifically to the dj:

It's largely irrelevant whether they are or are not marketing to the DJ, but as LE would make a pretty badly crippled sequencer.
As I say, it's largely irrelevant who would find it useful at that pricepoint.
The point I am trying to make takes a simile to illustrate...
If my local supermarket started giving the option of buying a set of forks cheaper than a full cutlery set, I wouldn't start kicking-off saying, "I eat a lot of soup and steak; this offer is f*cking useless, I need at least one knife and 1 spoon. Why are you doing this? I'm gonna take my custom elsewhere!"
No, I'd buy a full cutlery set if I needed it and accept that those who eat TV meals can buy a set of forks if they want to. If my knives and spoons are unavailable or more expensive because of the sudden availability of single forks, then I might have cause for protest; until then I'll save my energy for something worthwhile - like actually using my f*cking cutlery!!!

i completely agree man. i'm not arguing against you. or ableton. i'm only saying that indie devs like Plogue and Usine have leveled the playing field immensley. and when the big boys release an LE version of their software, which is double the price of quality and unrestricted apps from smaller devs, it just sounds ridiculous....

but hey, business is business...if people are buying at that price, why stop?

i mean, have you ever gone to a nightclub and they charge $30 to get in the door? Why are they charging you $30? Are the drinks better? No, and they're likely to be twice as expensive. Are the chairs more comfy than the chilled out pub down the street? Probably not. Who are they to charge $30? They charge $30 because they know people will pay it. and the people will think its THE place to be because they charge $30, not because its $30 better than the chilled out pub down the street....

or maybe its because the pub down the street have run out of forks

[shamann]

So (shamann) what you basically want is a fourth choice, that specifically meets your needs/wishes.

No, not really. I have no specific needs. I would have, however, very likely purchased a cut-down version of Ableton Live that didn't suck.

it's something real different to post some of the really negative over-the-top - and actually quite offensive - stuff that a few people are posting about this

I'd like to introduce you to this thing called the Internet, you seem to be new here.

When don't people post negative, over-the-top stuff on here? Can't say I pay much attention when they do. But in every discussion I've seen about Live LE on the web so far, a lot of people who might have considered going for a cut-down version of Live are saying that the cuts made seem more like demo restrictions trying to get you to upgrade up to the full version rather than a lighter yet still complete unto itself version.

[headquest]

I take that point. The same could be argued about the various versions of FL studio or whatever else has cut down versions. It's definitely a dilema, and for the record I don't think Ableton have got this totally right. I expect very few do... but if you compare the comments you will see that different people are carping about different restrictions...

For some people it's the VST limit (and personally I agree with that), for others it's lack of ReWire (which, erm, I also agree with ), while others (such as the DJ crowd) are more concerned about the lack of the "complex warp mode" or the limit of only having 8 Scenes...

The point is, you can't please everyone - once you impose limitations somebody will be screaming about them , and yeah, especially on the internet

So what's to do? Well one response would be for them simply not to offer a Lite version with any limitations. That is of course what they decided to do for the last few years.

The other thing is for them to release a Lite version and as "dancerchris" says, test the market. They may well decide to alter the mix when they release Live 7 LE of course. But at least they are having a go. And the more constructive user criticisms are, the more likely they are to be heard and taken account of for the future

[shamann]

Looking over the comparison chart of FL's various versions, I think they got it exactly right, because each version at least does some stuff in an unlimited manner. This new version of Live is limited on virtually every level.

Maybe they'll revisit their approach, but I suspect they'll simply drop the LE version if it doesn't pan out rather than change how it was done.

[iain_morland]

Ionce you impose limitations somebody will be screaming about them , and yeah, especially on the internet

What do we want? The imposition of limitations on the imposition of limitations!

[lhm1138]

Why does Ableton insist on making LE more and more useless????

Seriously, I can undestand no track freeze, and limited to two VSTs and two VSTis, that's a plus, some limitations are good or you'll get distracted. But no Rewire, no midi output, no midi sync/clock, no video track????

[shamann]

And compare it to the LE version of Logic 8.