Amp sims as, well, amp sims

[shogger]

For most sounds I'm using I'm definitely there with Revalver. Dunno if I will be able to tweak the last bit out of it, too. But this is besides the sounds I can do with it the major point why i'm so happy with Revalver: I can change the RESPONSE of the amps and not only turn a treble knob or dial in some gain.

Shogger

amps sim as amps sim also... and only this.

I don't understand your comment?

Shogger

[hibidy]

man, I love amp sims. They have provided me with HOURS of fun and enjoyment that I would never have had if I had to rely on an amp.

However, if volume and money were simply no object......I'd have real amps.

The key to amp sims is knowing to get the most of your equipment......what I mean by that is samplerate/latency/etc.

For example, I run 24/48 with my buffer at 128 most of the time. It's SICK! Very responsive and practical for most daw's. But everyone is different.

[eduardo_b]

Interesting...I don't see any complaints that amp sims aren't completely faithful reproductions of classic hardware. In theory this should encourage developers to come up with new ways of virtualizing amps and effects, but what is currently missing that you might want?

[guitarzan]

Like susiwong posted, the sensitivity of the amp sim to touch (pick attack, etc) is the most important thing - and it's not just the obvious "pick soft=cleaner, pick harder=more distortion" thing. There is a lot that happens to the tone after the initial attack in a good tube amp...there has been developement in that area in amp sims though (ReValver MK II, esp the Ktty model and Studio Devil BVC have quite good touch response IMO - enhance with compressors) and I think that is the area where amp sims will eventually evolve beyond mimicking hardware amps.

Once the subtle touch sensitive envelope of tube amp attack, bloom, sag, sustain and decay is more fully anylised and implemented in amp sims, the same type of envelope can be used to control many aspects of the tone in a very organic way that will seem natural to guitar players, at least to the ones who have used tube amps extensively. Could be as mild as a unique new amp or as wild as a synth but with more human control than is possible with a keyboard.

Credit where credit is due: Fretted Synth - one guitar software developer who is not trying to mimick any existing amp models, and possibly the first to be headed beyond imitation altogether with his audio triggered synths, and the synth-like gate/filter section in Free Amp 2.

[shogger]

Interesting...I don't see any complaints that amp sims aren't completely faithful reproductions of classic hardware. In theory this should encourage developers to come up with new ways of virtualizing amps and effects, but what is currently missing that you might want?

Why do you ask like a developer?

Shogger

[frequency_algorithm]

Like susiwong posted, the sensitivity of the amp sim to touch (pick attack, etc) is the most important thing - and it's not just the obvious "pick soft=cleaner, pick harder=more distortion" thing. There is a lot that happens to the tone after the initial attack in a good tube amp...there has been developement in that area in amp sims though (ReValver MK II, esp the Ktty model and Studio Devil BVC have quite good touch response IMO - enhance with compressors) and I think that is the area where amp sims will eventually evolve beyond mimicking hardware amps.

Once the subtle touch sensitive envelope of tube amp attack, bloom, sag, sustain and decay is more fully anylised and implemented in amp sims, the same type of envelope can be used to control many aspects of the tone in a very organic way that will seem natural to guitar players, at least to the ones who have used tube amps extensively. Could be as mild as a unique new amp or as wild as a synth but with more human control than is possible with a keyboard.

Credit where credit is due: Fretted Synth - one guitar software developer who is not trying to mimick any existing amp models, and possibly the first to be headed beyond imitation altogether with his audio triggered synths, and the synth-like gate/filter section in Free Amp 2.

Couldn't agree more. (Good)Vacumm tubes are just so snappy and lighting fast, faster than solid-state when used in amps the "right way." But nevermind all that, they sound badass.

EH tubes all the way.

[eduardo_b]

Interesting...I don't see any complaints that amp sims aren't completely faithful reproductions of classic hardware. In theory this should encourage developers to come up with new ways of virtualizing amps and effects, but what is currently missing that you might want?

Why do you ask like a developer?

Shogger

Hmm, not asking like a developer but as someone whose trying to understand what others feel is lacking in current virtual amps. Don't you think it requires experience with tube equipment to understand what subtlies are currently missing?

[Niksounds]

The BIG problems is the convolution..

Ok for pre and power amp simulation... "good" simulations today.

BUT the problems are the CABINETS, the SPEAKERS, obtained with CONVOLUTION... that has problem with non linear systems.

This problem is not in pre/power amp emulation, becouse there are really good c++ routes, but in the cabs.

The cabs is actually, in emulations, a frequencies response + or -

And this is dirty =)

Where are all the SUBTLE harmonics distortions of speakers? i mean that one subtle.. All the dinamics caused from this? ah... needs emulation, not simple impulse.


And "only" this is'nt little...

[guitarzan]

The "Dist" and "Crunch" controls on the ReValver MK II RIR speaker emulation module add cab stress and speaker distortion modeling to the loaded static IRs and I think it works pretty well.

For a free setup you can add makeshift crude speaker distortion to cab IRs in Boogex by using a small bit of the Mech distortion from CamelCrusher. Compression helps make static IRs seem more dynamic too.

The ultimate convolution based cab sim is probably possible with the dynamic volterra kerneling capabilies of Nebula, a little hard on the CPU for older machines, but no one will care in a couple years.

[Mokafix]

I agree that devs should make new stuff based on the knowledge of amp sims.

It may be slightly off topic, but I did a structure in synthedit, a kind of modular amp where you can change routing and tweak fine parameters. It let me reproduce some other amp sims or pedals (some v-amp2 amps or guitar suite screamer for instance) faithfully.
There's a bunch of global knobs that can be routed to the fine parameters, so that you end up with a simple comprehensive interface (bass/mid/treble/gain or tone/drive/mix for example).
I think it's quite fun and let anyone do custom disto/amp plugins.
It would be really cool to make it a collab project so that other devs could add their ideas inside. It would make a very versatile distortion/amplification effect.

But I know collabs rarely work when it comes to developing plugins...

Anyway, I think it's time for digital guitar FXs emancipated from vintage emulation.

[guitarzan]

It may be slightly off topic, but I did a structure in synthedit, a kind of modular amp where you can change routing and tweak fine parameters. It let me reproduce some other amp sims or pedals (some v-amp2 amps or guitar suite screamer for instance) faithfully.
There's a bunch of global knobs that can be routed to the fine parameters, so that you end up with a simple comprehensive interface (bass/mid/treble/gain or tone/drive/mix for example).
I think it's quite fun and let anyone do custom disto/amp plugins.
It would be really cool to make it a collab project so that other devs could add their ideas inside. It would make a very versatile distortion/amplification effect.

But I know collabs rarely work when it comes to developing plugins...

So anyone can use this modular amp setup to make distortion/amp sim plugins or would a lot of experience in SE be necessary? Sounds like it could be a very interesting project!!

[Niksounds]

I know dist and crunch controls of revalver..

But this isn't a emulation of a cabs..

convolution or dinamic convolution for a cabs response are a "placebo".. =)

Cabs needs an emu.. (and for the air between source and mics or ears?..........)

No... emulations are good as emulations.

A good micing is (today) superior, in harmonics, dynamic and ambience.

If it is not superior , the micing is bad.

imho.

[Mokafix]

The idea is:
I use synthedit 100% modular environement to make a plugin that works like a smei modular environement aimed at one specific task : disto/amp.
So in the end, you got a vst plugin, with 3 screen in it's current form:
- main (where you can see the global parameters),
- inside editing (where you can tweak everything)
- routing (where you choose names for the global parameters, and set what the amount of influence each knob has over inside parameters)

So working on the plugin requires some SE skills, but the vst in the end is aimed at users, so you have an interface that let you do lots of things, save your work as a patch that correspond to one effect in a way.
Some people would use the preset effects, some would create new ones.

I might do an interface and make a new thread for it to see if some people are interested in adding stuff to it.
I already started such a colab last month, but had no much participation for now (might be due to holidays too).

[dimitar]

Just got Line 6 Gear Box VST and here is the result http://www.nalbantov.com/mp3s/Dimitar_N ... t_Solo.mp3

[RooGoo]

Dimi, you traitor... I thought you were a confirmed RVII man.... tsk tsk