Amp sims as, well, amp sims

[dimitar]

Dimi, you traitor... I thought you were a confirmed RVII man.... tsk tsk

I'm in endless chase for the only one and unique sound...



ok here is some RV MK II full song from my next project-album :
http://www.nalbantov.com/mp3s/Dimitar_N ... UPDATE.mp3

[shogger]

I agree that devs should make new stuff based on the knowledge of amp sims.
...
Anyway, I think it's time for digital guitar FXs emancipated from vintage emulation.

Absolutely! There was a time when the first Boogie came out and was revolutionary. (Santana anyone?)
Soldano, brought a revolution to high gain sounds.
Diezel, man what an amp!
Rectifiers, VHTs, Bogners, the list goes on.
Lots of new stuff built on prior knowledge.
So yes, I'm all for new stuff as long as it sounds great.

Shogger

P.S. Dimi, this Revalver guitar sound song you posted has the best guitar sounds I heard from you. Really cool. Nice Vai song BTW.

[Hink]

A good micing is (today) superior, in harmonics, dynamic and ambience.

If it is not superior , the micing is bad.

imho.

bad mic'ing could be one thing that hurts all you say...but not the only thing. Tube amps are finicky, to little power on older amps can chop the high end, bad tubes can destroy the sound (even good tubes can sound different), biasing, the guitar itself can have wiring issues, even a cheap guitar cable or too long a cable could be the cause and we haen't even started on the differences of speaker selection...with all due respect, there is too many variables to assume it's just bad mic'ing.

[guitarzan]

convolution or dinamic convolution for a cabs response are a "placebo".. =)

Cabs needs an emu.. (and for the air between source and mics or ears?..........)

The effect of the air between the source and mic should be picked up just fine by the mic that is used to make the IR's (same as always in recording) - and dynamic convolution (or rather the dynamic voterra kerneling of Nebula) should be able to reproduce that just fine AFAIK. In fact, it should do a better job than is even possible with any current PM techniques because it would be so complex.

[guitarzan]

The idea is:
I use synthedit 100% modular environement to make a plugin that works like a smei modular environement aimed at one specific task : disto/amp.
So in the end, you got a vst plugin, with 3 screen in it's current form:
- main (where you can see the global parameters),
- inside editing (where you can tweak everything)
- routing (where you choose names for the global parameters, and set what the amount of influence each knob has over inside parameters)

So working on the plugin requires some SE skills, but the vst in the end is aimed at users, so you have an interface that let you do lots of things, save your work as a patch that correspond to one effect in a way.
Some people would use the preset effects, some would create new ones.

I might do an interface and make a new thread for it to see if some people are interested in adding stuff to it.
I already started such a colab last month, but had no much participation for now (might be due to holidays too).

I'd really like to see something like this take off...I don't have any experience with SynthEdit but I've been wanting to give it a try and something like this project would at least give me some framework to begin with...maybe I could get up to speed in time to contribute.

Seems like FrettedSynth would be great for a collab like this if he would be interested? Also tomg (EFM) if he were interest...etc. Plus you would probably generate a lot of new interest in SE from people who just want to work on a project like this.

I say do it!!

[guitarzan]

Dimi, you traitor... I thought you were a confirmed RVII man.... tsk tsk

I'm in endless chase for the only one and unique sound...



ok here is some RV MK II full song from my next project-album :
http://www.nalbantov.com/mp3s/Dimitar_N ... UPDATE.mp3

Sounds great Dimi! Really great!!

Are you now still in the U.S.? How's everything going?

[Killvehicle]

A good micing is (today) superior, in harmonics, dynamic and ambience.

If it is not superior , the micing is bad.

imho.

the guitar itself can have wiring issues, even a cheap guitar cable or too long a cable could be the cause and we haen't even started on the differences of speaker selection...with all due respect, there is too many variables to assume it's just bad mic'ing.

All the guitar issues you mentioned has nothing to do with an amp or micing. YOu would have the same problem in any amp sim if the guitar is making noise....


But I think Niksounds is pretty much on the button.. If you have an amp that you like, then in the end its down to mic'ing it. I know many people dont have an amp, but assuming you have an amp you like, then I think he is correct. I think there is a decent # of people who really never have tried mic'ing their amp beyond throwing a mic in front of a speaker, and getting bad results. Hence why I hear Mic'ing an amp is "difficult" so often. I dont think this to be the case at all.. Mic placement may take a few extra trials and errors, but in the end, its really not hard to achieve an accurate depiction of an amp with mics...

And anyway, for me, I have more fun playing with mic placement, the # of mics, the volume of the amp, different kinds of mics etc. etc., than fiddling with some software, that has endless choices but doesnt deliver the goods...

[susiwong]

One thing not mentioned yet is that different styles have different priorities / problem areas.
A high gain tone like Dimitar's (great playing btw !) by definition is so compressed it reacts completely different from, say, a cleanish blues sound.
Many metal-/high gain players I know actually prefer guitars made of poplar or basswood because they are not as resonant as a good Les Paul for example, making them easier to control at extreme distortion.
A blues guy however typically picks his guitar by playing all the likely candidates unplugged first, searching for the most resonant guitar.
In the same way our needs in an amp sim differ massively, that's where a lot of the disagreement comes from imho.
Cheers,
susiwong

[rockstar_not]

I'm really glad I watched this thread - a free Dimitar tune!!!!

-Scott

edit: I just picked up a Joe Satriani CD this weekend that was in the discount bin - Big Rush.

This tune is better than any of them on that CD.

[tomg]

Dimi, you traitor... I thought you were a confirmed RVII man.... tsk tsk

I'm in endless chase for the only one and unique sound...



ok here is some RV MK II full song from my next project-album :
http://www.nalbantov.com/mp3s/Dimitar_N ... UPDATE.mp3

Great tune! Great tone! Super Playing!

Try the stompshop if you get a chance. I'd like to hear if you think I could do anything about the tone.

http://ele4music.com/efm/?p=59

[CapnLockheed]

actually the bottom line is guitarists always want more...we're never 100% satisfied and ear fatigue can warp one's perception no matter how "perfect" the tone is...

Hrmn....sounds like you're talking about drugs Hink.

Cheers....CL

[Hink]

A good micing is (today) superior, in harmonics, dynamic and ambience.

If it is not superior , the micing is bad.

imho.

the guitar itself can have wiring issues, even a cheap guitar cable or too long a cable could be the cause and we haen't even started on the differences of speaker selection...with all due respect, there is too many variables to assume it's just bad mic'ing.

All the guitar issues you mentioned has nothing to do with an amp or micing. YOu would have the same problem in any amp sim if the guitar is making noise....


But I think Niksounds is pretty much on the button.. If you have an amp that you like, then in the end its down to mic'ing it. I know many people dont have an amp, but assuming you have an amp you like, then I think he is correct. I think there is a decent # of people who really never have tried mic'ing their amp beyond throwing a mic in front of a speaker, and getting bad results. Hence why I hear Mic'ing an amp is "difficult" so often. I dont think this to be the case at all.. Mic placement may take a few extra trials and errors, but in the end, its really not hard to achieve an accurate depiction of an amp with mics...

And anyway, for me, I have more fun playing with mic placement, the # of mics, the volume of the amp, different kinds of mics etc. etc., than fiddling with some software, that has endless choices but doesnt deliver the goods...

I use to have this friend who had a soundcity 4x10 with an ampeg B4 on top of it...that amp really sounded pretty good. When we jammed I was kinda surprised how good it would sound (I use to joke that the cab was so crappy it sounded great), but I dont care how you mic'ed it up, baffled...whatever, it just sounded like crap...I can assure you that between the two of us neither have been known to try just one thing and give up...we both enjoyed experimenting with many things...in fact that got us in over our heads in the past, but it's how we learned...didn't you yourself tell me you didn't think my dead box with a 10" wouldn't sound all that good, would that be because of bad mic'ing?

[Killvehicle]

A good micing is (today) superior, in harmonics, dynamic and ambience.

If it is not superior , the micing is bad.

imho.

the guitar itself can have wiring issues, even a cheap guitar cable or too long a cable could be the cause and we haen't even started on the differences of speaker selection...with all due respect, there is too many variables to assume it's just bad mic'ing.

All the guitar issues you mentioned has nothing to do with an amp or micing. YOu would have the same problem in any amp sim if the guitar is making noise....


But I think Niksounds is pretty much on the button.. If you have an amp that you like, then in the end its down to mic'ing it. I know many people dont have an amp, but assuming you have an amp you like, then I think he is correct. I think there is a decent # of people who really never have tried mic'ing their amp beyond throwing a mic in front of a speaker, and getting bad results. Hence why I hear Mic'ing an amp is "difficult" so often. I dont think this to be the case at all.. Mic placement may take a few extra trials and errors, but in the end, its really not hard to achieve an accurate depiction of an amp with mics...

And anyway, for me, I have more fun playing with mic placement, the # of mics, the volume of the amp, different kinds of mics etc. etc., than fiddling with some software, that has endless choices but doesnt deliver the goods...

I use to have this friend who had a soundcity 4x10 with an ampeg B4 on top of it...that amp really sounded pretty good. When we jammed I was kinda surprised how good it would sound (I use to joke that the cab was so crappy it sounded great), but I dont care how you mic'ed it up, baffled...whatever, it just sounded like crap...I can assure you that between the two of us neither have been known to try just one thing and give up...we both enjoyed experimenting with many things...in fact that got us in over our heads in the past, but it's how we learned...didn't you yourself tell me you didn't think my dead box with a 10" wouldn't sound all that good, would that be because of bad mic'ing?

I dont know man,, If it sounded "pretty good", then most likely you can get a pretty good recording out of it.. IN some cases though, certain speakers don't sound as good when mic'ed, but I have only come across 1 out of literally dozens.. It just sounded down right shitty when mic'ed... Although Im sure I could have EQ'ed it after the fact, but thats not how I like to work..

As far as your dead box, I really dont rememeber that at all, but If i did I probably had a reason to say that... And my point is bad mic'ing should NOT be an excuse, becasue it really isnt hard.. I was just saying I hear that WAY too much..

I have been doing some research on Dead boxes myself, and the problem I see with them is the fact that it is enclosing a mic.. So if the box isnt built with sufficient sound absorbing material and/or just isnt big enough to absorb the built up sound waves, then there is a real bad possibility of sound waves bouncing around in that box and being picked up by the mic.. Which would lead to most likely bad recordings.

[dimitar]

@guitarzan - Thanks! Everything is Ok for now
@rockstar_not - I'm really happy that you liked the song...this means a lot for me...
@tomg - Downloading now!!! Thanks for the kind words...I appreciate it!
@shogger - yeah I like the sound too

[The_Cresta]

There is no "exact" sound of an AC30 as not two of them do sound the same. The handfull AC30s I played (yes, most of them were really old) sounded poor or mediocre and never like the good ones. Worse with Marshalls. Played and tried quite some of them and nearly all of them sounded basically poor (before I modded them).
In Revalver I can finetune all amps the way I like them. If this then does sound exactly like Jimmies or Michaels or Eddies amps, I dunno and I don't really care because it sounds good.

Shogger

double thumbs up for you , that's my line too. Some can argue that since I don't "make music professionally" I can't have the "right" view of the story... but too many people talk about music losing precious time for MAKING music. Also, Jimi already existed: what's wrong with him in having it's own and unique guitar sound? if someone wants that sound, then buy his albums! What we really need is something new, and our era give us sooooo many alternatives that most of them will be wasted talking about them.