KVR Audio

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:31 am

RIGHT!

so what's for dinner?

deaneager · Post by **deaneager** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:05 am

shogger wrote:
deaneager wrote:Hmmm, interestingly CM Mag had in their "We Heard it Down the Pub" box in the news section that they'd heard that one of the major DAW manufacturers had lost all the work they'd done updating the DAW over the last few months because they hadn't been backing up their server; and that their programmers are now working around the clock to re-do all of their work.
People!

Go to a different pub or don't listen again to people who have no clue about how a programming company does their stuff. The "We Heard it Down the Pub" box of CM either IS their joke corner or it should be understood as this. This is simply hilarious.

Shogger

Hang on, I never said it were true, I just put 2+2 out there; if you've come up with 5 maybe it's your summing error.

shogger · Post by **shogger** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:51 pm

deaneager wrote:
shogger wrote:
deaneager wrote:Hmmm, interestingly CM Mag had in their "We Heard it Down the Pub" box in the news section that they'd heard that one of the major DAW manufacturers had lost all the work they'd done updating the DAW over the last few months because they hadn't been backing up their server; and that their programmers are now working around the clock to re-do all of their work.
People!

Go to a different pub or don't listen again to people who have no clue about how a programming company does their stuff. The "We Heard it Down the Pub" box of CM either IS their joke corner or it should be understood as this. This is simply hilarious.

Shogger
Hang on, I never said it were true, I just put 2+2 out there; if you've come up with 5 maybe it's your summing error.

Whoopie!

Did you feel offended? Sorry if, I didn't intend to do so. Did you see the smilies?

Shogger

deaneager · Post by **deaneager** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:59 pm

shogger wrote:
deaneager wrote:
shogger wrote:
deaneager wrote:Hmmm, interestingly CM Mag had in their "We Heard it Down the Pub" box in the news section that they'd heard that one of the major DAW manufacturers had lost all the work they'd done updating the DAW over the last few months because they hadn't been backing up their server; and that their programmers are now working around the clock to re-do all of their work.
People!

Go to a different pub or don't listen again to people who have no clue about how a programming company does their stuff. The "We Heard it Down the Pub" box of CM either IS their joke corner or it should be understood as this. This is simply hilarious.

Shogger
Hang on, I never said it were true, I just put 2+2 out there; if you've come up with 5 maybe it's your summing error.

Whoopie!

Did you feel offended? Sorry if, I didn't intend to do so. Did you see the smilies?

Shogger

I felt dirty and abused...

...but I kinda liked it.

jens · Post by **jens** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:39 pm

shogger · Post by **shogger** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:21 pm

Pffft!

Shogger

Stargard · Post by **Stargard** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:01 am

from what I understand, Robert was talking about the different interpolations of RAMPS in envelopes being audible, not the audio engine.

so when he was talking about improving the sound (because of his research) he was talking about improving said interpolation issues, not the inaudible noise floor of the audio engine.

I thought it would be nice to point that out after 10 pages of discussion.

lotus2035 · Post by **lotus2035** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:09 am

.....bleeeeeehhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!....

....thats my contribution to this thread... good bye and good luck...

bluepride · Post by **bluepride** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:31 am

headquest wrote: Ableton co-founder / guru Robert Henke has made some fascinating points in that thread:

* He says that independant tests commissioned by Ableton have revealed that THERE ARE differences in the audio quality between ALL the hosts (Live included).
* He clarifies by explaining that these are outside of the audible range, so fairly inconsequential.
* He states that the tests included the five/six big name programmes that we all know
* He says that the "next major version" of Live will have improvements to audio quality based on this research and development.

Additional "audio improvements" in Live won't matter until they flesh out its MIDI implementation.

Live's MIDI facilities are so far behind what people need to do much of anything that it's beyond pathetic. I'm a Cubase user, but would use Live if I could. Its MIDI implementation (or lack thereof) has ensured that I'm not an Ableton customer.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:14 am

bluepride wrote: Additional "audio improvements" in Live won't matter until they flesh out its MIDI implementation.

I don't really follow your logic there...

Additional "audio improvements" may/may not matter to existing users. An improvement is an improvement, period. How could that not matter?

MIDI implementation is something entirely different. Maybe you prefer programmes with a list editor, notation, whatever, but Live's MIDI implementation - for the many that are happy with it - is something just different from audio quality.

Live's MIDI facilities are so far behind what people need to do much of anything that it's beyond pathetic. I'm a Cubase user, but would use Live if I could. Its MIDI implementation (or lack thereof) has ensured that I'm not an Ableton customer.

What specifically are you missing? Please give details.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:32 am

I'd like to chime on the last two posts.......both have valid points though they might be separate issues?

a. One thing about the live midi "system" that is awful is import/export. It literally takes notes aways and re-quantizes them. I've gotten into it with amaury/alex/etc over it......this bug exsists! But I guess not everyone is so "beat conscious" that they recognize it..........?

b. Although live has made many strides in midi over the 3 versions it's been a feature, It's time to put the "first stuff first" and the "other" stuff that not everyone uses second. It gets to be a headache to try and navigate through some of the features.

c. Quantize is wrong! Swing is not always swing, etc. It's time to rethink that menu and make CERTAIN that grooves are what they say they are! Oh, and "get it together" with the swing feature (top left)

d. AUDIO. The biggest "hearing" complaint I had with live was the addition of plugs. What I mean is the more you had, the worse the flanging/latency/er, lack of compensation? there was.......not GOOD!! Cubase, logicpro, reaper, don't have this issue and if you advertise PDC, you need to HAVE pdc!!!!!!! btw, pt le does not have pdc and to me it's better at this than LIVE!!!!!!!

Ok, I'm tired of typing for a couple of mins......let the flaming begin!!!!!

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:25 am

headquest wrote:
bluepride wrote: Additional "audio improvements" in Live won't matter until they flesh out its MIDI implementation.
I don't really follow your logic there...

Additional "audio improvements" may/may not matter to existing users. An improvement is an improvement, period. How could that not matter?

MIDI implementation is something entirely different. Maybe you prefer programmes with a list editor, notation, whatever, but Live's MIDI implementation - for the many that are happy with it - is something just different from audio quality.

Live's MIDI facilities are so far behind what people need to do much of anything that it's beyond pathetic. I'm a Cubase user, but would use Live if I could. Its MIDI implementation (or lack thereof) has ensured that I'm not an Ableton customer.
What specifically are you missing? Please give details.

Live ignores the channel information coming out of MIDI plugins and routes it straight to channel 1. It's a bug. Not a feature or design choice, a bug. What's more they've been told about it by multiple users in the testing cycles of versions 5 and 6 and it's still there. I haven't bothered to report it this time.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:42 am

Okay. Certainly not something I've noticed.

Hmmm. You said:

bluepride wrote:Live's MIDI facilities are so far behind what people need to do much of anything that it's beyond pathetic.

...and I assumed from that you would be refering to major MIDI features missing (e.g. List Editor and Notation, which are important to some people or course, but not to others). In fact you're talking about one bug which has obviously frustrated you personally in your workflow.

From my perspective that seems to be a bit of an overstatement

Art Evans · Post by **Art Evans** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:46 am

If I do a 32 bit mixdown in Audition of two tracks, each with an identical file on it -
Then I do the same in Reaper using the same file as the source -
Then I invert one of those mixdowns against the other in Audition, in that mixdown of the mixdowns I get a file peaking to -58dB, when I'd expect silence if there was no audible difference between them.

Even more strangely, when I normalise that mixdown (the difference of the mixdown of the two DAWs) I get what sounds like the original source file back (which is a testament to the dynamic range of 32 bits).

Doesn't a simple test like that "prove" that there are differences, and possibly audible differences, between different DAW programs?

Yours innocently and probably ignorantly,

Art.

MitchK1989 · Post by **MitchK1989** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:50 am

so does anyone know when live 7 is coming? I'm debating if I should wait for it to come out before purchasing live...

DAW Audio Quality does vary... and Live 7 sneak peak!