Ocean Way Drums is coming!

[drenndogg]

well oceanway drums certainly sounds fantastic. i sure hope that it can live up to the great previews that you are giving it. love the idea, by the way, for downloadable kits; hope that sees the light. please, if you don't mind, leave a post as soon as audio demos are available; if you can't tell, i'm really itching to hear the sounds. i've been doing a fresh google search for oceanway drums about twice a month since january. if the v-drum compatibility is truly great, it might finally be enough to convince me to buy some of those weird looking things for my project studio. i enjoy DFHS, and to some extent BFD, but there has always been something amiss. hope the "top of the top" fills in those gaps!

[drenndogg]

p.s. any possibility for a video/audio samples exhibiting the v-drum capability? i have long been searching for the most playable sample library.

[stephenpaulharper]

Well Squids, if this thing is as V-drums-friendly as you say, this is a no brainer for me. Got a nice little Seagate HD just sitting and waiting for BFD2, so try and beat them to the punch.

Hey, are the toms and kicks recorded both with and without snare bleed/buzz? Please say yes.

Thanks,

Steve

[Squids]

80G! I'm hoping to wait a little more to "upgrade" my 2 firewire external (160G) until Christmas....

With so many things in store, I just can't wait to try out a couple of these "new" releases. I just need to find time to play!

One unrelated question...I heard that there's something "special" for users that own both ST2.5 and SS2? What is it?

Zai

Ocean Way Drums requires either internal or eSata drive, a firewire drive (preferably FW800) and IF you have a 10,000 RPM drive that's better... especially if you want to get the Platinum Edition with the 96K material. 96K Kits can be as large as 5 gigabytes for one kit! But the Gold and Silver Editions have the 48K kits which sound amazing (that's what I'd use personally most of the time) but those still benefit from a fast drive and fast connection. Ocean Way Drums is not really for laptops. I'd get Studiophonik, Studio ProFiles and Infinite Drums for that (more portable use). Ocean Way Drums is extremely high end and meant for people with powerful systems to be able to run it.

Off topic, the surprise we have for SS2 and ST2.5 users are new ST2.5 combis for SS2 sounds utilizing the new effects system to create composite mega patches. If you want to talk about it let's do that in another thread though.

[Squids]

p.s. any possibility for a video/audio samples exhibiting the v-drum capability? i have long been searching for the most playable sample library.

Yes, we'll be doing videos of this.

We really did go over the top on this. It's by far the most expensive production we've ever been involved in. There's a V-Drum set in a dedicated room over at Ocean Way Studios that Sonic Reality shares. It's right next to Studio D where Rush recently mixed their latest album. We had people like Nick D'Virgilio and Vinnie Colaiuta come in and hit the V-Drum and gave us their feedback... not sure if Neil Peart playing it though... not while I was there. I did see him walking around. I talked to Alex and Geddy about it in that room however and they were excited about its release... in fact, everyone who records at Ocean Way knows what a great sounding room Studio B is and what a fantasic engineer/producer Allen Sides is. So, naturally a lot of the people who record there want to get this collection without question.

The V-Drum programming is outstanding. We put a lot of effort into it. The toms and snare sound incredible with the alt switching and rims. The hat and ride are also fantastic. The only thing that was tricky was the cymbal choking. We were having trouble with that and I have to check to see if it was solved. The problem was that the V-Drum cymbals send aftertouch for choking and when you modulate the amp negatively with aftertouch in Kontakt 2 it works but then when you let up on the cymbal it fades back in which isn't natural. So, I think that was the only thing left out. But the complex controller messages for positions that the deluxe V-Drum kit has work great! We have the top of the line V-Drum kit at the Sonic Reality studio as well and TRUST me if you play drums it is the kind of thing you can lost in HOURS of fun and fascination... to be PLAYING kits produced and engineered by Allen Sides and Steven Miller (even the patch programming mix between the mics was done BY Allen and Steven AT Ocean Way still! I had to fly the SR team out there to do it in LA) is quite an experience. We're VERY proud of this product.

[Squids]

Well Squids, if this thing is as V-drums-friendly as you say, this is a no brainer for me. Got a nice little Seagate HD just sitting and waiting for BFD2, so try and beat them to the punch.

Hey, are the toms and kicks recorded both with and without snare bleed/buzz? Please say yes.

Thanks,

Steve

Yes. There are kick/tom sets recorded with and without snares on.

[stephenpaulharper]

Yes. There are kick/tom sets recorded with and without snares on.

Thank you sir - two more quickies. Are there maps for all the V-drum kits? For instance, BFD was pretty slow on the take for mapping the TD-6 kit, even though it's one of Roland's top-sellers.

And if you could possibly give us a hint, should we be thinking in terms of more or less than $500? No worries if this is top-secret.

Thanks again.

Steve

[drenndogg]

Well, I normally try to refrain from getting too excited about a product I haven't yet seen, but given sonic reality and IK's great track record, combined with your gushing previews, I'm having a hard time containing my enthusiasm. I know that you've already said that this library will not be cheap, but that you get what you pay for. Given that, if I am to use this bundle to its full potential, I want to make sure that it is done right. My biggest machine right now is a dual 2.0 gHz G5 tower with 4 gb of RAM, and 400 gb of 7200 rpm hard drive space. My question is this-do you have any specific preferences or recs for the type of hard drive to use? I've never used a FW800 because I guess I've always assumed it to be slower than an internal SATA drive. Is this a poor assumption? Would you recommend internal or FW800? Also, with regards to 10000 RPM, would the performance boost be noticeable? If you feel that it is necessary or largely beneficial to upgrade a HD, that is something I would like to look into.

[Squids]

Yes. There are kick/tom sets recorded with and without snares on.

Thank you sir - two more quickies. Are there maps for all the V-drum kits? For instance, BFD was pretty slow on the take for mapping the TD-6 kit, even though it's one of Roland's top-sellers.

And if you could possibly give us a hint, should we be thinking in terms of more or less than $500? No worries if this is top-secret.

Thanks again.

Steve

Well, first, let me say that we're not in any way creating this to compete with BFD. To me BFD is just another sampler but dedicated to drums. I love that program and I am friends with FXpansion and plan to do some Sonic Reality drums in BFD format soon (maybe even some Ocean Way kits eventually). However, when it comes to responding to the V-Drum there is more flexibility of programming that we can do with the Kontakt engine than BFD currently. I don't know about BFD2 though but we'll see when it comes out. Anyway, the value here of the product is the CONTENT mainly. The fact that it is Ocean Way Studios, one of the top studios in the world, recorded by one of the top engineers with the best mic collections on the planet calling up the same drum kits that have been recorded on countless records from a guy who has mixed over 500 of them... all adds up to a premium price relative to other sample collections. Think of it more like the Vienna Symphony but for drums. It's the most high end drum collection ever made. So, naturally it has a more high end price and since it cost so much to produce this way (top of the line all the way) it will even take us a while to recoup! But, it's totally worth it because I know that we're giving access to a sound people would otherwise never get like this and since it would cost over $10,000 per day to be in the studio if you could even get in (the room, engineers and equipment) I think the pricing is great value even if it is the most expensive drum product on the market.

So, what is it? Let's just say it is similar to EWQLSO in pricing and comes in three flavors: Silver, Gold or Platinum HD.

As far as which V-Drum kits it was programmed for that's simple. It was programmed ONLY for the high end V-Drum Kit (yes, the one that costs around $5,000). It will work with other V-Drum Kits that have less capability but the goal of this particular project was to achieve the best possible with the current technology out there. It's not meant to be mass market appealing for every level of musician on every budget. Sonic Reality has tons of products already that are like that such as our plug-ins with IK or our refills for Reason. Those are affordable and usable by anyone from beginner to pro. Ocean Way Drums is aimed at pros or semi pros who take their music seriously and want the best tools possible.

All that said, if it goes well with the V-Drum support even at the top level and there are a lot of requests for drums mapped on other V-Drum kits then we'll consider doing some specialized in the future. Maybe not Ocean Way Drum kits specifically but we also have a large archive of drums from our Infinite Instrument and Studio ProFile series that aren't as crazy in size, mic channels and programming.

[Squids]

Well, I normally try to refrain from getting too excited about a product I haven't yet seen, but given sonic reality and IK's great track record, combined with your gushing previews, I'm having a hard time containing my enthusiasm. I know that you've already said that this library will not be cheap, but that you get what you pay for. Given that, if I am to use this bundle to its full potential, I want to make sure that it is done right. My biggest machine right now is a dual 2.0 gHz G5 tower with 4 gb of RAM, and 400 gb of 7200 rpm hard drive space. My question is this-do you have any specific preferences or recs for the type of hard drive to use? I've never used a FW800 because I guess I've always assumed it to be slower than an internal SATA drive. Is this a poor assumption? Would you recommend internal or FW800? Also, with regards to 10000 RPM, would the performance boost be noticeable? If you feel that it is necessary or largely beneficial to upgrade a HD, that is something I would like to look into.

You really do get more than what you pay for with this. But like anything it's all in how someone looks at it.

Your set up is fine. Internal is always going to be faster so no worries on getting a FW800. Sata is better. a 10,000 RPM drive is going to be better performance but it is more noticeable on the 96K material. But, the 96K Platinum HD comes already installed on a 10,000 RPM drive (shhh) so that'd solve that problem right there. The Gold Edition is 48K and will work find on a SATA 7200 internal though and for most people that will be the main one to get.

[stephenpaulharper]

Well, first, let me say that we're not in any way creating this to compete with BFD. To me BFD is just another sampler but dedicated to drums. I love that program and I am friends with FXpansion and plan to do some Sonic Reality drums in BFD format soon

Understood. I will always support FXpansion to the nth degree. Angus and Mayur have jumped through hoops for me many times in dealing with various situations, and BFD2 will be mine as soon as it hits the street. AES? (fingers crossed).

Let's just say it is similar to EWQLSO in pricing and comes in three flavors: Silver, Gold or Platinum HD.

Gotcha - not bad at all.

As far as which V-Drum kits it was programmed for that's simple. It was programmed ONLY for the high end V-drum kit...Ocean Way Drums is aimed at pros or semi pros who take their music seriously and want the best tools possible.

Interesting. I'll offer this observation. The really hardcore dead serious edrummers have long since stopped using the woefully inadequate V-drum "modeled" samples contained in the $2K Roland modules, for the real deal VST kits like BFD and DFHS, etc. The trend these days - which is sure to continue - is to invest in the quality of the triggers themselves and whatever software you're gonna use. These types - myself included - have ditched their $$$$ modules, and gone with the cheaper modules or TMIs, since all you really need is the trigger-to-MIDI capability. $2k buys a lot more stuff than crappy samples. That said, I can map anything as long as the hihat is CC#04, so it's not a big issue for me, but I would definitely look into maps for the TD-6 and TD-12 as well as the TD-20, and possibly the Alesis I/O as well. Remember the Mastellatos and NDVs on the scene get all this shit for free and have no need to "downgrade" in such a manner. Many of your potential customers will have. Sermon over.

My sincerest thanks for all the info.

Steve

[drenndogg]

what about the upper level hart dynamics kits? i think they have positional sensing (?). does it necessarily have to be the roland pads or just the roland td-20 brain? i know that some people prefer the hart kit augmented with the roland hi hat controller and module. you can see performance videos on toontrack.com of just such a setup. looks like quite a bit less expensive kit to piece together than roland. thanks. also, what would be the real benefit of the 96k package? i've never recorded above 48, and maybe i don't understand the purpose as long as it's 24 bit or above.

[Squids]

Hi Steve,

Well, originally Ocean Way Drums was just going to be in our I-Map format for keyboard mapping (which is discrete articulations mapped to different keys... great for midi keyboards, not for drum triggers). Then we said it would be nice to do it for drum pads but since there are so many where do you start? Well, if you're working with Allen Sides and Steven Miller there is only one place to start and that's at the top. TRUST me! You will never meet a bigger audio snob than Allen (said affectionately of course and I'm partially kidding).

So, in order for OWD and V-Drums to work JUST RIGHT there are even settings for the V-Drum kit that we describe to do in the manual (and we may also provide the file to put onto a flash card for it). I am aware that drummers are looking to control software samplers to improve the sound character and performance from their elaborate trigger systems. I think that OWD offers the most in this category particularly in areas people have complained about such as gunshot toms (not a problem here), fluid control and variety of the hi hat (one of the best in OWD), variety of positions of the ride (yep!), variation of positions on the snare and good rim shots on snares and toms (yep, yep).

All of this utilizes the brain of the TD20 and that particularly cool hi hat controller pad. I know some of the other kits don't even have that hi hat controller. We don't really want to "dumb it down" for kits that don't have that fancy hi hat control. But, if there are any other TD kits that have it then we might consider modifying it (if it even needed to be...should be pretty close I would think) to be tailored to some other TD kits as well.

At the end of the day though, it all depends on the demand! If we get hundreds of drummers asking for it to work with their Casio bongo controller then it would at least be a topic of discussion! I guess in this case, Allen and Steven really like to be top of the line high end without it being bit sized for everyone. I on the other hand like to please everyone from the amateur to the pro. So there's a balance in there somewhere.

I think it will be a real favorite for V-Drummers though.

[drenndogg]

oh sorry....another question. i have so many!!! are there any varied playing samples? brushes, hotrods, felt beaters, wood beaters, etc.?

thanks, mike

[Squids]

what about the upper level hart dynamics kits? i think they have positional sensing (?). does it necessarily have to be the roland pads or just the roland td-20 brain? thanks. also, what would be the real benefit of the 96k package? i've never recorded above 48, and maybe i don't understand the purpose as long as it's 24 bit or above.

Yes, it's mostly to do withthe TD20 brain (although the hi hat controller is pretty important to get it just right). Keep in mind though that other kit controllers, with a little tweaking on THAT end (mapping pads to different notes from the brain) can also easily work with it was well. But it was designed specifically for the V-Drums top of the line kit and it works seamlessly with it.

If you don't record above 48K then the 96k version isn't necessary. It's twice the price but comes on a hard drive AND you still get the 48k version with it on DVDs. Anyone mixing for film in 24/96 surround might like to have that or really anyone who does high resolution music. I don't personally myself either because it takes up a lot of resources to do that. Although... if I had a song that used OWD for the drums and I was doing a 24/96K Super Audio CD (something I would LOVE to do with Simon Collins album which I am co-producing right now) then it would be fun to run the Ocean Way Drums 96K version mixed in 5.1! So it's nice to have around if you can afford it. But, only if you see yourself doing some kind of high def audio like that. 90% of the people buying this will get the gold or silver I think. The Platinum HD version is for a more esoteric audio file crowd (which includes Allen Sides himself who would use that... but he mixes people like Phil Collins in 5.1! See the difference? Phil vs. Simon. Just kidding). I'll tell you something though. Even if there are less people that will need/want the 96K version I think it is really nice that it is even being offered. It took so much longer to do because we wanted to have it also in 96K. But, the reason it is can be attributed to he fact that we're working with audio engineers with very high standards and great ears.