Producing and mixing music is something I enjoy doing. From what I understand, it's getting harder to get in to because with cheap software, people are starting to do it on their own. I much perfer getting a degree in audio engineering rather than what I'm currently pursing which is a degree in Philosophy.
I also take pride in being self-taught. I guess studying to get a degree in audio engineering will hurt my pride, but pride doesn't pay the bills, or more gear. On the plus side, I'll be studying something that I really TRULY enjoy which is what I think schools are failing at by teaching kids in day 1 esoteric mumbo jumbo that they'll forget after learning how to pass a test.
So what's better for my future? Ending up with some useless liberal arts degree from some state university or ending up with a useless degree in audio engineering? I'm guessing if I go to a state university, I'd be a manager at McDonalds, and I'd be a cashier at McDonalds if I go to a trade school for sound engineering.
What are your thoughts KVR?
Going to school for audio engineering? Yay or Nay?
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awesomescreenname awesomescreenname https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=161302
- KVRer
- 15 posts since 26 Sep, 2007
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- KVRAF
- 2696 posts since 3 Aug, 2003 from Narnia
The liberal arts degree is a better investment for the future.
I never heard of anyone getting a decent job on the strength of an audio engineering degree.
But as you say in your post that they're both 'useless', maybe you should save your money and go straight to MacDonalds.
I never heard of anyone getting a decent job on the strength of an audio engineering degree.
But as you say in your post that they're both 'useless', maybe you should save your money and go straight to MacDonalds.
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- KVRAF
- 1763 posts since 16 May, 2007 from A place where time does not exist...
awesomescreenname wrote:Producing and mixing music is something I enjoy doing. From what I understand, it's getting harder to get in to because with cheap software, people are starting to do it on their own. I much perfer getting a degree in audio engineering rather than what I'm currently pursing which is a degree in Philosophy.
I also take pride in being self-taught. I guess studying to get a degree in audio engineering will hurt my pride, but pride doesn't pay the bills, or more gear. On the plus side, I'll be studying something that I really TRULY enjoy which is what I think schools are failing at by teaching kids in day 1 esoteric mumbo jumbo that they'll forget after learning how to pass a test.
So what's better for my future? Ending up with some useless liberal arts degree from some state university or ending up with a useless degree in audio engineering? I'm guessing if I go to a state university, I'd be a manager at McDonalds, and I'd be a cashier at McDonalds if I go to a trade school for sound engineering.
What are your thoughts KVR?
couple of things...... music bizz = shot to shit
philosophy bizz = shot to shit
go become a professional something!!!!!!!!
do not have a dream on planet earth!!!!!!
dreams = shot to shit....
with that said. if you were born to make music. make it.
if you were born to question the meaning of life. question it
if you were born to have a family work at a store. enjoy its. sometimes the most simple easy things, are the most rewarding
I used to think the internet was going to unite mankind. Now I realize the internet is perhaps mankinds greatest wasteland of bickering, greed, and narrow minds. " And we all shine on, " Imagine that.
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- KVRAF
- 2844 posts since 1 Jan, 2003
Study audio engineering if the studies themselves will bring you joy.
Pride won't pay the bills, but a degree in audio engineering might not pay the bills either.
What might work is networking, networking, being really good at what you do (no matter how you got so good), being reliable, being a decent human being, networking, losing the pride and taking any job offered, meeting musicians, supporting other musicians, passion, and oh, yeah, networking.
Pride won't pay the bills, but a degree in audio engineering might not pay the bills either.
What might work is networking, networking, being really good at what you do (no matter how you got so good), being reliable, being a decent human being, networking, losing the pride and taking any job offered, meeting musicians, supporting other musicians, passion, and oh, yeah, networking.
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- KVRAF
- 16154 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
I attented audio engineering school, and the majority of graduates get jobs through the school. The school I went to is required by their accreditation committee to place around 70-80% of their graduates in a job to keep their accreditation.
As a matter of fact, that is exactly how I got my job in radio. If it weren't for the school, I wouldn't be here.
The disadvantage is that you don't have anything to fall back on. I'm still going back to finish my "real" degree that I started years ago.
Engineering school will help you if you want to get into the big business in some form. It takes a lot of work and most likely working for free as an intern for a few months for the larger studios, but if that's what you want, go for it. If you're producing your own stuff, it's useless. But the school gives you the chance to work with gear that normal people just don't have access to. Do you want to learn on an SSL or Neve console but can't afford one? Engineering school is the only way.
Now, that being said, if you live in a major music city and have the chops, go around to studios asking if they need interns. Be professional, be willing to work, and come prepared to answer questions and get rejected. Then you work for some time for free until an engineer comes along and likes the help you've given. They decide to hire you and you no longer work for the studio but that engineer instead. And one day when the engineer asks you to sit in for him(also making his money- yeah, it works that way), you can start to show others that you can engineer. Then when somebody you work for needs their next CD engineered, they may call you.
It's all about patience and HARD work. I'm in radio and didn't go through all of the above. But tons of my friends from school are doing just that. And school got it for them because they had the good recommendation of the teachers and the know-how of what to do when you get there. Plus, they knew the gear already which is a plus for a studio.
They do NOT want to train you on the routing of an SSL console, period. So if you don't go to school, download manuals and routing charts if you must. But you gotta learn your stuff.
All just what I've learned, and I hope it all helps. The music business isn't shot. It's just changed, and it's not easy.
Brent
As a matter of fact, that is exactly how I got my job in radio. If it weren't for the school, I wouldn't be here.
The disadvantage is that you don't have anything to fall back on. I'm still going back to finish my "real" degree that I started years ago.
Engineering school will help you if you want to get into the big business in some form. It takes a lot of work and most likely working for free as an intern for a few months for the larger studios, but if that's what you want, go for it. If you're producing your own stuff, it's useless. But the school gives you the chance to work with gear that normal people just don't have access to. Do you want to learn on an SSL or Neve console but can't afford one? Engineering school is the only way.
Now, that being said, if you live in a major music city and have the chops, go around to studios asking if they need interns. Be professional, be willing to work, and come prepared to answer questions and get rejected. Then you work for some time for free until an engineer comes along and likes the help you've given. They decide to hire you and you no longer work for the studio but that engineer instead. And one day when the engineer asks you to sit in for him(also making his money- yeah, it works that way), you can start to show others that you can engineer. Then when somebody you work for needs their next CD engineered, they may call you.
It's all about patience and HARD work. I'm in radio and didn't go through all of the above. But tons of my friends from school are doing just that. And school got it for them because they had the good recommendation of the teachers and the know-how of what to do when you get there. Plus, they knew the gear already which is a plus for a studio.
They do NOT want to train you on the routing of an SSL console, period. So if you don't go to school, download manuals and routing charts if you must. But you gotta learn your stuff.
All just what I've learned, and I hope it all helps. The music business isn't shot. It's just changed, and it's not easy.
Brent
My host is better than your host
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- KVRAF
- 16154 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
Yeah, I might add that even with school, nothing is guaranteed. They will get you the internships in most cases. But that's the beginning of the long process. If you do what MOST interns do and sit playing video games instead of fetching coffee and wrapping cables, you will be an intern forever.
Which is why I say that having a regular degree is helpful as well. Something to fall back on, because there is no sure thing in the music engineering business.
Brent
Which is why I say that having a regular degree is helpful as well. Something to fall back on, because there is no sure thing in the music engineering business.
Brent
My host is better than your host
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- KVRian
- 634 posts since 1 Jul, 2007 from over there
If you are good at networking with people, do it. If not, teach Philosophy and get the audio degree during the summer whenn school is out.
People have thrown $40,000 down the drain going to schools like full sail. To many horror stories for me.
People have thrown $40,000 down the drain going to schools like full sail. To many horror stories for me.
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- KVRist
- 135 posts since 31 Aug, 2004
Why not get a 'regular' engineering degree (not to offend audio engineers), or physics or science?
Seems these are the last option on many peoples' list, but they will almost guarantee a solid future and let you have latitude to do what you want in your personal life- including buying or even building gear. Not to mention being interesting by comparison to much of the standard filler course work that makes up many liberal arts degrees.
Many areas of physics and electrical engineering also cross paths with audio and music and all sorts of other interesting topics.
Just a thought...
D.
Seems these are the last option on many peoples' list, but they will almost guarantee a solid future and let you have latitude to do what you want in your personal life- including buying or even building gear. Not to mention being interesting by comparison to much of the standard filler course work that makes up many liberal arts degrees.
Many areas of physics and electrical engineering also cross paths with audio and music and all sorts of other interesting topics.
Just a thought...
D.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I'm jaded, myself. I have a liberal arts degree (English) and a degree in Education, which was supposed to be my "practical" degree for getting a job. That hasn't happened regularly enough (some years teaching, but a lot of supply work), and I really wish I could go back in time and get a more employable degree. Say, architecture or veterinary school. Or Dentistry... people are getting more and more vain, and dental-related cosmetic work is a growing business. Dentistry is a can't-lose.
Of course, you have to have the grades to get into those....
"Professional" degrees aside, even a practical community college diploma would probably mean I'd be in a house right now instead of an apartment. Plumbing would have been a good one.
Greg
Or Dentistry... people are getting more and more vain, and dental-related cosmetic work is a growing business. Dentistry is a can't-lose. Of course, you have to have the grades to get into those....
"Professional" degrees aside, even a practical community college diploma would probably mean I'd be in a house right now instead of an apartment. Plumbing would have been a good one.
Greg
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- KVRAF
- 1763 posts since 16 May, 2007 from A place where time does not exist...
Lunch Money wrote: Dentistry is a can't-lose.
you could become a mortician... people are dying all the time... lotsa money there, I looked into it once, but I just can't deal with wearing black all the time.
I used to think the internet was going to unite mankind. Now I realize the internet is perhaps mankinds greatest wasteland of bickering, greed, and narrow minds. " And we all shine on, " Imagine that.
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- KVRAF
- 3441 posts since 15 Mar, 2003
Turn what you love into a job and it will be a job.
It's doubtful that you will continue to love it.
Philosophy may be one of the few things less useful than music.
Learn to earn a living and do what you want on the side.
How many audio jobs do you think are out there?
It's doubtful that you will continue to love it.
Philosophy may be one of the few things less useful than music.
Learn to earn a living and do what you want on the side.
How many audio jobs do you think are out there?
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- KVRAF
- 1763 posts since 16 May, 2007 from A place where time does not exist...
P.T. wrote: How many audio jobs do you think are out there?
at this point I would like to guess anywhere from 17 to 99 serious audio jobs exist worldwide.
I used to think the internet was going to unite mankind. Now I realize the internet is perhaps mankinds greatest wasteland of bickering, greed, and narrow minds. " And we all shine on, " Imagine that.
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Funkybot's Evil Twin Funkybot's Evil Twin https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=116627
- KVRAF
- 12517 posts since 16 Aug, 2006
Sad but true.Andywanders wrote:The liberal arts degree is a better investment for the future.
I never heard of anyone getting a decent job on the strength of an audio engineering degree.
If you want to become an engineer and want formal training, find a good local studio and beg to do whatever they want you to (for free most likely) while you learn the ropes/sharpen your skills. Or hell, convince a band that they should either go into a local studio with you producing and someone else engineering, because you're that good. Or even offer to record some local musicians on the cheap to improve your skills. Choosing any of these later options would allow you to still work on your philosophy degree at the same time.
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- KVRian
- 1028 posts since 20 Jun, 2007
It's all about who you know these days...
Having a really impressive set of chops, experience working with any daw or instrumentation or style and lots of flexibility and creativity go a long way. The music business is just like any other business (okay that's kind of unfair but hear me out). The more prepared you are (in terms of what you know and how well you know it) the better off you'll be when the mix engineer turns to you and asks you something involving a lot of buzzwords and technical terminology. Having a degree will always afford a pretty good deal of hands on experience (depending on how equiped the school is) and training from those who work with the stuff on a daily basis.
A degree can only help you gain more experience. Sure, you're going to be "wasting your time" if you compare yourself to people getting their bachelor's in EE at MIT, but if you're doing what you love to do and getting by, I wouldn't be too worried about it.
Having a really impressive set of chops, experience working with any daw or instrumentation or style and lots of flexibility and creativity go a long way. The music business is just like any other business (okay that's kind of unfair but hear me out). The more prepared you are (in terms of what you know and how well you know it) the better off you'll be when the mix engineer turns to you and asks you something involving a lot of buzzwords and technical terminology. Having a degree will always afford a pretty good deal of hands on experience (depending on how equiped the school is) and training from those who work with the stuff on a daily basis.
A degree can only help you gain more experience. Sure, you're going to be "wasting your time" if you compare yourself to people getting their bachelor's in EE at MIT, but if you're doing what you love to do and getting by, I wouldn't be too worried about it.
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- KVRian
- 1028 posts since 20 Jun, 2007
I don't know...if you've ever read what the people working for magazines like electronic gaming monthly have to "endure" I'm sure that might have a different spin.P.T. wrote:Turn what you love into a job and it will be a job.
It's doubtful that you will continue to love it.