KVR Audio

Omniphonix · Post by **Omniphonix** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:55 pm

z15 wrote:If you really want insanely transparent preamp, check Millenia Media's HV-3C stereo pre or TD-1 twin topology channel. They're probably overkill though, and both close to that 2k dollar mark.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head here. Now I just wish there were some place nearby where I could A/B with the preamps in my MOTU and the same KSM44 mic and see what that $2000 will get me.

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:02 pm

Take into consideration that - if you use the Motu for conversion - however transparent your preamp is, the converters in that unit will take a lot of it away. In your case I'd spend the 2500 bucks on a transparent no-nonsense preamp and a great converter (Mytek for instance).

MickGael · Post by **MickGael** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:07 pm

FWIW, GML is the most transparent gear I've ever heard. Even when using first generation blackface ADAT convertors (back in the day), the detail, clarity and openess was just incredible.

Omniphonix · Post by **Omniphonix** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:10 pm

Well the more I read, the more I like the Millenia TD-1. I would think running XLR line out of that into the MOTU would be fine though. I always heard great things about MOTU converters, it was the preamps that were bottom-of-the-line...

z15 · Post by **z15** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:25 pm

My Traveler wasn't too good in that area but I heard lots of people say that the 896HD is a lot better. Never witnessed the difference since I've never used 896HD but the difference between Traveler and my Metric Halo 2882 was clear.

Now, here's another option that came to my mind... Metric Halo have the Mobile I/O ULN-2. They advertise it as a "digital audio hub", it's basically an audio interface (but unfortunately with only OSX drivers and software), an awesome 2 channel ADC and 4 channel DAC with front panel volume controls, plus two clean sounding "boutique quality" mic preamps with plenty of gain. Costs around $1k or $1,5k AFAIR, and I've heard nothing but praise for it so far.

Check here: http://www.mhlabs.com/metric_halo/products/mio/uln2/ They have some upgrades they're unveiling at the AES show this weekend so the situation might change a bit but it's still a smokin' product. Like I said, I own one of their 2882+DSPs (which has much worse mic pres but still awesome conversion and routing) so you can count me as a biased fanboy who doesn't know what he's talking about... So just check out the reviews and talk around the net and try to get to listen one somewhere.

The only real issue I see that if you don't have an OSX machine, you can't change the internal mix routings and I'm not sure if the unit is preconfigured to work as a standalone unit - you can configure it using the software to work as a standalone ADC+DAC and mic pre, or whatever you want to. That might be a realy showstopper, but if you can find a machine to configure the unit at (or if you do have a Mac) you can store a few routing presets to it and use it standalone flicking through those after that.

Omniphonix · Post by **Omniphonix** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:40 pm

Well here's what turned me on about the TD-1... My new Stratocaster is almost finished (getting a ton of mods done to it) and I'm thinking it might be nice to have the flexibility of instruments AND mics through tube OR solid state in the same unit (thanks for mentioning it btw, it really is a slick little box). I was planning to pick up a Roland VG-99 for the Fender since one of the mods is a hexaphonic pickup, but I am starting to wonder about the preamp in that unit. Maybe I would be better off getting something like the Axon AX-50 for MIDI conversion, the TD-1 as a guitar pre, and do all my effects and modelling in something like NI Guitar Rig or Waves GTR.

Anyway, I suppose I could always run it through my MOTU and maybe upgrade to a top converter later on. Anybody have any thoughts on converters?

z15 · Post by **z15** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:43 pm

Yeah the TD-1 seems like a very flexible unit and Millenia don't really skimp on the quality (and know their shit, so to say). With any piece of gear (especially so expensive) better do like you said though, and try to get an opportunity to A/B and try out the unit so you know you won't be disappointed.

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:56 pm

Mytek Stereo192-ADC or Stereo96-ADC.

Omniphonix wrote: Anyway, I suppose I could always run it through my MOTU and maybe upgrade to a top converter later on. Anybody have any thoughts on converters?

Omniphonix · Post by **Omniphonix** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:42 pm

Can anyone think of perhaps a better all-in-one box? Is maybe the new Mackie Onyx 1200F with it's "12 Flagship Onyx mic preamps" a reasonably priced alternative that I could upgrade to from my 896HD? I really can't see myself getting a $1500 preamp/channel AND a $1500 A/D converter. Does nobody make a first-class preamp with a first-class converter and direct digital output over firewire?

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:57 pm

There's the Apoggee Ensemble. But it won't deliver the quality you get with a great preamp + a great converter. With a Mytek Stereo96-ADC and an ultra-transparent preamp like the High Speed Preamp from http://www.audioupgrades.com/products.htm you'll get true high end quality and transparency up the wazoo for 2500 grands.

I'd stay away from the Mackie stuff.

Omniphonix wrote:Can anyone think of perhaps a better all-in-one box? Is maybe the new Mackie Onyx 1200F with it's "12 Flagship Onyx mic preamps" a reasonably priced alternative that I could upgrade to from my 896HD? I really can't see myself getting a $1500 preamp/channel AND a $1500 A/D converter. Does nobody make a first-class preamp with a first-class converter and direct digital output over firewire?

Omniphonix · Post by **Omniphonix** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:06 pm

living sounds wrote:There's the Apoggee Ensemble. But it won't deliver the quality you get with a great preamp + a great converter. With a Mytek Stereo96-ADC and an ultra-transparent preamp like the High Speed Preamp from http://www.audioupgrades.com/products.htm you'll get true high end quality and transparency up the wazoo for 2500 grands.

The Apogee would be great if I was on a Mac. I wonder what there really is electronically that separates one preamp from another. If it really is going straight to digital, why can't the high-impedance signal be converted directly? Anybody who can release a first-class piece of gear that can go straight from a mono Mic input to firewire for under $1000 will make a killing in the home studio market.

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:23 pm

The funny thing is that an AD chip actually needs very little voltage. So a preamp before the converter wouldn't really need to provide that much gain, if all you do is record with a source like a mic. But in order to make the thing idiot-proof (and to fulfill requirements by the FCC and others) there's usually a preamp to increase gain followed by an opamp to lower the gain again before the converter. And that opamp is one of the hard parts in a converter, you need a good one for it to sound good and it needs very clean power (and that's one of the reason why good converters are expensive).

birrbits · Post by **birrbits** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:02 pm

Im going thru a similar quandary on compressors. I had an FMR RNC that I really liked, but convinced myself I could sell it and deal with everything in software. Well, after one session recording an acoustic guitar player/singer who moved around alot I have given up on that notion.

I was considering buying another RNC but now I have seen some great reviews on the TC electronics C300. The nice thing about the C300 is that it looks like you get 2 completely independent channels which is not the case with the RNC. For me I'm looking at the purchase as buying a really transparent limiter. I will still go to software to compress the signal and impart character where need be, but I don't want the hassle of resetting my recording levels or dealing with boosting low levels all day long. Life's too short.

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:13 pm

birrbits, try out the Sonnox dynamics plugin and Nebula3 first. I haven't heard the C300, but I think it highly unlikely that it sounds better than these plugins. For what it costs the components most certainly are mediocre at best.

Omniphonix · Post by **Omniphonix** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:50 pm

living sounds wrote:birrbits, try out the Sonnox dynamics plugin and Nebula3 first. I haven't heard the C300, but I think it highly unlikely that it sounds better than these plugins. For what it costs the components most certainly are mediocre at best.

With the C300, I think its more an issue of it being a digital processor where most compressors are analog. I am sure you could get decent sound out of it, but I would not want to go through an A/D, through a DSP chip, through a D/A, into my interface line in, through another A/D into my DAW, and back out my interface D/A to my monitors. That is too much conversion for me. I would say any device you front-end your inputs with should be pure analog (although it can have digital controls), be it tube or solid state.

Compressors, Preamps, and Getting Vocals into the DAW