not to scale
Would I need a CV/Gate-to-MIDI converter? Or is it something to do with the 202's DIN-sync?
Roland MC-202 syncing to Korg EMX
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- KVRian
- 1211 posts since 7 Aug, 2006 from Geelong, Australia
How would I sync an MC-202 to a Korg EMX so it plays at the Korg's tempo?
not to scale
Would I need a CV/Gate-to-MIDI converter? Or is it something to do with the 202's DIN-sync?
not to scale
Would I need a CV/Gate-to-MIDI converter? Or is it something to do with the 202's DIN-sync?
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Muzik 4 Machines Muzik 4 Machines https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9550 - KVRAF
- 7829 posts since 6 Oct, 2003 from Quebec
probably just a midi clock to din sync if you just need sync
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- KVRAF
- 12615 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
you just need something capable of generating 24 pulses per quarter note. creating a vst to output those pulses on the serial (rs232) output is pretty easy. if you've got a bit more skill you might want to get a pic development kit (about $60) from some place like digikey.com and you can manage the process a lot more accurately that way. if you want something even more stable you should look into some microcontrollers with usb support and you can write a vst to output the pulses through that.
i'd go with the serial output since all you'll need on the output side will be a single resistor and single pnp transistor. the driving plugin will only need a few lines of code to strobe the strobe line at the correct times. i've already done this with my drum machines and it works great - you can get a dll for windows called "inpout32.dll" which will allow you to use inp/out calls to work your magic.
i'd go with the serial output since all you'll need on the output side will be a single resistor and single pnp transistor. the driving plugin will only need a few lines of code to strobe the strobe line at the correct times. i've already done this with my drum machines and it works great - you can get a dll for windows called "inpout32.dll" which will allow you to use inp/out calls to work your magic.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1211 posts since 7 Aug, 2006 from Geelong, Australia
Cheers M4M, but I have no idea what that looks like. Time to google.
Thanks aciddose. Im getting the strange feeling you like to play with old toys. And I was hoping to leave the computer out of this.
Thanks aciddose. Im getting the strange feeling you like to play with old toys. And I was hoping to leave the computer out of this.
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Muzik 4 Machines Muzik 4 Machines https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9550
- KVRAF
- 7829 posts since 6 Oct, 2003 from Quebec
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- KVRAF
- 12615 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
well, using that old 286 (you can even get the resistor and transistor out of some place on the 286 mobo too!) is going to be a hell of a lot cheaper than spending $200-$500 on one of those pic-based sync boxes.
my guess is that you'd want to be using it in a studio, right? so then using a serial sync interface will be even more easy than using a midi box.
the din-sync input needs about 50ua of current sink to be driven correctly and you shouldnt expect any rs-323 output to drive that. (or maybe you should? i dont know, but adding a buffer is better than plugging connections directly.) most outputs will only supply current rather than sink it (if i'm remembering correctly rs-232 is ttl collector-output) so what you need to do is:
connect a pnp transistor with it's emitter on the +5 rail. 47k goes from the emitter to the base. connect the collector via 100k to the base of the din-clk input transistor. (it should be connected with 100k from the input pin and 33k to ground from it's base.)
connect 100k from your rs-232 pin to the base of your pnp transistor. that'll drive the input no problem and you should be able to use the din-sync plug with both connected, as long as you only use one at a time. otherwise they'll get OR'd.
so, i lied, you need three resistors to do this correctly. the 47k can be the same as the other two 100k, and you dont need to use exact values - just try to use something fairly high but not too high.
if you've got one laying around, use a resistor of about 500k to connect from the din-clk transistor's collector (15k coming from vcc to there) back to the base of your pnp transistor. that'll apply some hysteresis to reduce vulnerability to noise. four resistors then
it sounds complicated but it isnt - all you'd need would be two wires coming out the back and some stuff soldered right onto the pins of the other components inside. easy to apply, easy to remove.
http://xhip.cjb.net/temp/public/dinrs323.png
the parts you add are in red, rs232-like source is in purple, the normal input from the din-5 connector is in cyan.
you may be able to plug one of the pins on the rs-232 (or parallel) cable directly to the pin on the din-5 plug but that isnt 100% sure to work.
anyway this is a really cool mod to do because you can apply stuff like swing beats. hearing your cr8000 go into a swing is the raddest thing ever.
building a din-master-sync-source is pretty easy too. that just requires a vco (six transistors) and if you want a divide-by-n counter to produce swings and so on. (typical swing would be div-by-3 output going into a pot for %swing and back into the vco cv input)
anyway if you're not into meddling in the electronic domain this stuff isnt very useful but you really should think about trying it out. a soldering iron and a few resistors and transistors will only cost you a a few bucks at a place like 'radio shack'.
be very careful not to mess it up though since you'll have to fix it then
my guess is that you'd want to be using it in a studio, right? so then using a serial sync interface will be even more easy than using a midi box.
the din-sync input needs about 50ua of current sink to be driven correctly and you shouldnt expect any rs-323 output to drive that. (or maybe you should? i dont know, but adding a buffer is better than plugging connections directly.) most outputs will only supply current rather than sink it (if i'm remembering correctly rs-232 is ttl collector-output) so what you need to do is:
connect a pnp transistor with it's emitter on the +5 rail. 47k goes from the emitter to the base. connect the collector via 100k to the base of the din-clk input transistor. (it should be connected with 100k from the input pin and 33k to ground from it's base.)
connect 100k from your rs-232 pin to the base of your pnp transistor. that'll drive the input no problem and you should be able to use the din-sync plug with both connected, as long as you only use one at a time. otherwise they'll get OR'd.
so, i lied, you need three resistors to do this correctly. the 47k can be the same as the other two 100k, and you dont need to use exact values - just try to use something fairly high but not too high.
if you've got one laying around, use a resistor of about 500k to connect from the din-clk transistor's collector (15k coming from vcc to there) back to the base of your pnp transistor. that'll apply some hysteresis to reduce vulnerability to noise. four resistors then
it sounds complicated but it isnt - all you'd need would be two wires coming out the back and some stuff soldered right onto the pins of the other components inside. easy to apply, easy to remove.
http://xhip.cjb.net/temp/public/dinrs323.png
the parts you add are in red, rs232-like source is in purple, the normal input from the din-5 connector is in cyan.
you may be able to plug one of the pins on the rs-232 (or parallel) cable directly to the pin on the din-5 plug but that isnt 100% sure to work.
anyway this is a really cool mod to do because you can apply stuff like swing beats. hearing your cr8000 go into a swing is the raddest thing ever.
building a din-master-sync-source is pretty easy too. that just requires a vco (six transistors) and if you want a divide-by-n counter to produce swings and so on. (typical swing would be div-by-3 output going into a pot for %swing and back into the vco cv input)
anyway if you're not into meddling in the electronic domain this stuff isnt very useful but you really should think about trying it out. a soldering iron and a few resistors and transistors will only cost you a a few bucks at a place like 'radio shack'.
be very careful not to mess it up though since you'll have to fix it then
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- KVRian
- 623 posts since 28 Jan, 2005 from hollywood
korg uses a differnt time base
roland is sync24 (24 pulses per quarter note) but korg is 48 so you need a MIDI -> Sync converter that understands both.
roland is sync24 (24 pulses per quarter note) but korg is 48 so you need a MIDI -> Sync converter that understands both.
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- KVRAF
- 9600 posts since 17 Sep, 2002 from Gothenburg Sweden
Get an old Roland 707/727. They have built in midi->sync24. Dunno if it's cheaper than a dedicated midi->sync24 box though. Could be.
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- KVRAF
- 9600 posts since 17 Sep, 2002 from Gothenburg Sweden
Hmmm,i guess you're right. I used to sync a 808 to an EPS with some sort of Roland box (MSQ 700? ) and IIRC it had to be the master now that i think about it.aciddose wrote:"They have built in midi->sync24"
actually that isnt true. they can broadcast midi and din sync at the same time, but they cant convert.
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- KVRAF
- 12615 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
yeah i dont think any of them actually convert - it would be sweet if they did. i really wanted to get my hands on a 707 just to use as a sync box until i found out it would only work if it was the master. apparently you have to use some undocumented trick to make it output din and midi sync at the same time too.
i stopped wanting a sync box after i found out how easy it is to manage all your sync from one pc like an old 286. that thing has been in a box for moer than a year though since i hardly do any music anyway.
"@aciddose: what the f**k do you do in your spare time!?!"
lately i've been working on r&d to start a company manufacturing affordable 100% analog (and mostly discrete too.. although that isnt very important) mono-synths. i hope i'll be able to offer effects units (gates, wave-shapers, filters, tremolos, ...) and a midi->cv/gate/sync unit as well. hopefully also i'll be doing modules a little later on. have to see which avenue is the least exhausting.
i stopped wanting a sync box after i found out how easy it is to manage all your sync from one pc like an old 286. that thing has been in a box for moer than a year though since i hardly do any music anyway.
"@aciddose: what the f**k do you do in your spare time!?!"
lately i've been working on r&d to start a company manufacturing affordable 100% analog (and mostly discrete too.. although that isnt very important) mono-synths. i hope i'll be able to offer effects units (gates, wave-shapers, filters, tremolos, ...) and a midi->cv/gate/sync unit as well. hopefully also i'll be doing modules a little later on. have to see which avenue is the least exhausting.
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Muzik 4 Machines Muzik 4 Machines https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9550
- KVRAF
- 7829 posts since 6 Oct, 2003 from Quebec
he builds powerfull synthsnapalmbob wrote:@aciddose: what the f**k do you do in your spare time!?!
I'll definately look into it.
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- KVRian
- 623 posts since 28 Jan, 2005 from hollywood
a korg will not sync to a roland -- duh! the whole premise of this thread is that they use different time bases so it's completely irrelevant if a roland drum machine converted midi to sync or not because *if* it could, it would be converting to a completely different time base.
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- KVRer
- 3 posts since 7 May, 2004
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All you need is a midi to din sync converter, you can buy one here for 60 euros - http://www.engineersatwork.nl/catalog/p ... cts_id/543 (http://www.engineersatwork.nl/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/58/products_id/543)Alternately, buy a used Novation DrumStation - it has a built-in midi to sync converter as well as being a great 808/909 emulator, and they can be picked up pretty cheap these days.
Cheers, vout