dead horse (the resurrection)

[nuffink]

I don't have the resources to do one of these tests.

No shit

[stefancrs]

I'm simply........again.......and AGAIN even......saying that if they are the same, and there is a test to prove it......how can live make a DIFFERENT claim.........

fewwwww.........this is just too hard.........come on guys.......I'm not the enemy here.......

But I already addressed that question. What do you mean "how"? It's not hard to speak marketing-speak when you need to. Even if the actual audio doesn't change with 64bit summing you of course will have to write something fancy about it, what's so strange about that?

[stefancrs]

Enhanced Audio EngineLive 7's enhanced audio engine improves fidelity with precision 64-bit summing at all mix points throughout the program, POW-r dithering, optimized sample-rate conversion and other advances

How would someone come to the conclusion that THIS is a true statement?

I think it's a valid argument/question! But clearly to most of the current participants it is NOT a valid argument.....at least that can be agreed on

Which I also already have addressed. Some of those improvements might very well cause better audio, especially the better sample-rate conversion, which alone would make the statement true, even when read in a "non-marketing-speak" light.

[hibidy]

I don't have the resources to do one of these tests. Let's leave out the 99 dollar one since for some reason no one can understand what bugs me about it (er, at least no one who is posting)

The "thesis" is that all hosts sound the same.......right?

There is allegedly a test that proves this.......right?

So if ableton says.......and I'll quote directly

Enhanced Audio EngineLive 7's enhanced audio engine improves fidelity with precision 64-bit summing at all mix points throughout the program, POW-r dithering, optimized sample-rate conversion and other advances

How would someone come to the conclusion that THIS is a true statement?

I think it's a valid argument/question! But clearly to most of the current participants it is NOT a valid argument.....at least that can be agreed on

Tell me what you think "fidelity" means, and we will discuss it

1 a : the quality or state of being faithful b : accuracy in details : EXACTNESS
2 : the degree to which an electronic device (as a record player, radio, or television) accurately reproduces its effect (as sound or picture)

either way, to state an improvement in fidelity is to say "it's better".......

[hibidy]

at any rate........respect to all (except nuffink )

Your opinions are what make forums awsome.

It's getting to be "angel" time..........er, I'm sure I've seen it though

[Pipelineaudio]

1 a : the quality or state of being faithful b : accuracy in details : EXACTNESS
2 : the degree to which an electronic device (as a record player, radio, or television) accurately reproduces its effect (as sound or picture)

either way, to state an improvement in fidelity is to say "it's better".......

There you go

The new engine can correct errors that were happening which were in most cases WAY too low to hear anyway, and in the worst cases were lower than the ability of 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999% of the systems out there to playback

[hibidy]

I totally hear (no pun intended ) what you are saying..........it's just that if it's not the same, it's different.

Now, here is a more serious question, now that things are a bit more "understood"......

have any of these tests had some kinda scope/analyzer to show all the frequencies at the end of the chain? If so, I have not heard of that.

Seems to me that it would be essential.

[Pipelineaudio]

I totally hear (no pun intended ) what you are saying..........it's just that if it's not the same, it's different.

Now, here is a more serious question, now that things are a bit more "understood"......

have any of these tests had some kinda scope/analyzer to show all the frequencies at the end of the chain? If so, I have not heard of that.

Seems to me that it would be essential.

If they null to -infinity there is nothing to analyze

If they null to -144 there is nothing to hear in theory

if they null to -120 there is nothing to hear in reality

[MRoc]

Even if the actual audio doesn't change with 64bit summing you of course will have to write something fancy about it, what's so strange about that?

When summing several 24 bit files, using 64 bits summing points instead of 32 preserves more of the LSB. With 16 bit files you will hardly meassure any difference.

[Rock Hardbuns]

I'm sort of skeptical to there being an actual engine architecture involved here.
(Rant ahead.)
An engine is an encapsulated block of functionality that exposes a simple interface (like any OO construction), but more importantly is that it turns something into something else, based on rules.
A 3D engine turns models into rendered images. A game engine turns a rule set into an interactive experience. A speech engine turns plain text into spoken words. HTML rendering engines, search engines, storage engines and so on.

I doubt the term really applies here. While I suppose that mixing is a form of transformation, it can hardly be simplified, and the nature of the application as a whole does not lend it self to it.

A disk streaming engine I can imagine, but here I think a more appropriate term would be audio subsystem, or just "the buffer manager class" or something, because that's probably what's actually under the hood.

[stefancrs]

Even if the actual audio doesn't change with 64bit summing you of course will have to write something fancy about it, what's so strange about that?

When summing several 24 bit files, using 64 bits summing points instead of 32 preserves more of the LSB. With 16 bit files you will hardly meassure any difference.

Yeah, but those LSB's are way below any meaningful threshold. Especially when you look at it from a signal to noise ratio perspective. Which mean that the audio doesn't change, even if the data is more precise. It would still be very strange from a marketing point of view to put it like that "We've improved the inaudible exactness". Or, wait, maybe it wouldn't be that strange after all