AmpliTube Metal - Released THIS month!!!

[Squids]

yeah midi control is overdue and I think they should give it to you free if you have two or more of the software that it works with.
rsp

How many times do I have to tell you guys, if you own AT2 it's going to be FREE!

jk (I am just messing with the peeps I know on here, I'm done)

Hell, I was willing to pay for it......but since I recently got at2 (thanks to ezsounds) looks like I might not have to pay? coooool

See? By the way, it's esoundz but that's cool.

Ez,

Squidz

www.esoundz.com

Hmmm

A compliment AND plug and I get the zinger..........

No not a zinger. I was kidding of course. I did appreciate the compliment and plug. Anyway, a lot of people have called it ezsounds by mistake. It happens.

[Squids]

Dude, with all due respect, you don't really get it I don't think. It does much more than any midi controller can do with guitar amp and effects software.

For instance?

And no, you don't need to compare it with other overpriced items. Just tell me what it does that's so special.

Well, first the main thing is dedicated control of every parameter in the software. I don't know of another hardware midi controller that allows you so much control of any other guitar amp and effects software to where you don't even need a monitor screen to access full functionality. If there was one then we can compare apples with apples. The fact that there isn't one makes it difficult to say it is overpriced. But, compared to other software dedicated controllers (like that of the other companies I mentioned- Arturia, Digidesign...) it's actually much less!

Deeply integrated hardware to software costs a lot more than open ended midi controllers. But, to clarify this I've suggested that there's some kind of comparison chart of what you can do with X-Gear in software and any generic midi controller vs. what you can do with X-Gear and Stomp IO. Then people can buy whatever features are most important to them! But, this way it won't just be a mystery and you can see more specifically what the difference is.

Sorry for sounding snappy there by the way. I was a little put off by your "I hope they don't sell any" comment which is really odd to me (why would any individual care if a company sells any units or not? makes no sense to me... imagine someone saying they hope no one goes to see your Abba show! It's kind of a strange thing to say and very negative... wishing bad luck to anyone is really, IMO). But, I have also tried to explain how Stomp IO is different than just an audio interface and a midi controller many times so it can be frustrating (as if someone isn't reading what I've written before many times about it... and since we've discussed it many times I'd have thought by now you understood it). Anyway, perhaps a graph showing what benefits feature-wise you get from this is in order and that will be more clear apparently than me bothering to explain it on the forum. I try to!

Of course, your not even a fan of it in the first place so I suppose your role is to just be the opposition for whatever reason... you enjoy being against it or who knows? All I know is that you guys crack me up with your differences on these things because it's how A3ntar's threads become legendary sized KVR masterpieces of drama. I admit I don't have as much time to dig into it quite like I used to though. I like to add my 2 cents when I can.

[Squids]

Do you really think other firms didn't put as much work into sounddesign and presets as IKM?

You mean the modeling work? First, it's not necessarily whether a company puts in the same amount of work but the quality of the work and the techniques they use. Many people find IK's modeling to be the most accurate. I can go by my own ears and shoot out with the actual gear (a lot of which I personally own... in fact I lent a lot of my own gear TO Italy so they could model it so I can even A/B with the ACTUAL unit that was modeled in some cases). I know what I hear. Is it always exactly like the original? No. Analog is analog and I will always love analog and hardware. But the character is captured and it's powerful to have an emulation of it in software for production purposes (plus speed, flexibility, convenience etc.).

I'll be honest, the guitarist in my old band had a one of the competing products you've mentioned and I thought it always sounded too digital for my tastes... not enough animation in the harmonics. I'd rather use the real thing than that. But, for me personally, AmpliTube 2 family products are the first ones I feel comfortable using instead of hardware... but I am not selling my Vox AC30TB or anything I just don't use it as much.

It's personal taste in the end. If you don't like it don't get it. If you do then enjoy like so many other people do! The appeal of sound can be very different amongst people and it doesn't matter if a hundred thousand people love it if you don't... and I don't expect to convince anyone to like it if they don't want to like it. Even if I think "what's not to like about this????". But that's just how I look at it. I really love it!

For those that don't understand how SR is tied to IK, it ISN'T for the effects. I don't get royalties for guitar amp products. Just my SR sound-based SampleTank products. But, I AM still a user and a musician myself. I am a gear junky deluxe and having a software emulation of a Univibe or Fuzzface that's pretty darn close just makes me genuinely happy. I know I'm not the only one!

[Niksounds]

Only one mic , in good position, and all sw emulations goes down...

[Squids]

I must admit I always feel a bit screwed by IKM. Seems that if I own quite a few IK products I can get a crossgrade price on everything which is great, but if I own nothing I can get lot's for heaps less than I paid. Or alternatively if I want to buy X plugin, I could have got Y for free a month ago, but there were no plugins that I wanted at that time. Plus, having CSR, AT2 and AT2JH I would be willing to bet the price I'll pay for ATME will be the same crossgrade price that an owner of ST1LE could get.

I'd like to be proven wrong though. Still like they say, buy it or don't, it's my choice. Just seems a but unfair to repeat customers is all.

It really is a shame when I see even just a few people feeling this way on the forum considering the changes that have been made over the years largely from me communicating back to the powers that be what you guys say on the forum. I mean, I remember way back when the OSX upgrade came out for ST and there was a charge for it and people "felt screwed" so I helped convince everyone that the good will of offering OS compatibility upgrades for FREE, even if it costs money in development you have to recoup, is worth it! So, what do you get? FREE UB and Vista support. There are so many other things we've rallied for and won... how about axing the dongles everyone was complaining about. So many great improvements and I listen to you guys and convey what the users (at least I talk to here) want! But in the end if you STILL feel screwed when you have the best crossgrade policies, free updates (also ST2.5 with CSReverb and a new effects system... free update for ST2 users... not to mention X-Gear for free to AT2 users... what more do you want?).

It really does seem like you can't win sometimes. Although you could think about all that and reconsider in the big picture all of that before you really feel so screwed. I know as a consumer myself what being screwed is REALLY like and this is far away from that!

[Squids]

Oh yeah, and is the MXR flanger they modeled the same one you borrowed from Mke Rutherford?

No, I never ended up getting it from them. But I did get Mike's Boss Overdrive and Coloursound Supa Tone Bender... hopefully one day that will get modeled (hasn't been yet). I was GOING to get Mike's Flanger (the Follow You Follow Me) but the engineers at IK Italy got hold of one before I did that. So, there's not so much of a point now... except for the fun of having his gear. Oh but I AM sampling his Ricky double necks when I am at The Farm next. Hehe. Shhhhh.

At least you can see this is the fun part for me. GEAR. It's all about the gear. I love it. It's production POWER to me. Flavors to play with. It goes along with my philosophy of "sample everything".

Anyway, I am off. Limited internet time at AES. I love you all!

Peace.

[hibidy]

Yeah, after dropping the dongle (a bold and welcome move) and offering some outstanding crossgrades (and getting out ub's, etc) is what got me into this stuff. Really can't imagine what I'm lacking anymore.

As far as the line six stuff is concerned, IF you have the vst package then I might be closer to the "apples to apples" comparison. But if you are talking toneport, pod, etc......then all bets are off. Reason is that when using a plug you are only recording a dry track.....so you can change the tone anytime but the part is still the same. Otherwise, you'd have to go back and re-record......and just for me, that's just too much work!

The debate could go on forever, it's all about taste and such.

[Sascha Franck]

Well, first the main thing is dedicated control of every parameter in the software. I don't know of another hardware midi controller that allows you so much control of any other guitar amp and effects software to where you don't even need a monitor screen to access full functionality.

Have you ever looked at Kore? Basically, it does exactly that.
Plus, you can assign each and every parameter to your favourite knob.

But, compared to other software dedicated controllers (like that of the other companies I mentioned- Arturia, Digidesign...) it's actually much less!

Aww, come on, Squids. That's a rather low blow. Are you really comparing the Stomp I/O to any Digidesign controller?
I'd rather compare it to something such as my rusty, aging Boss GT-5. A floor pedal, uncomfortable to edit (because you need to knee down or lose the foot controller, should you place it on a stand during your editing tasks) with a too small display.

Sorry for sounding snappy there by the way. I was a little put off by your "I hope they don't sell any" comment

Yeah, you're right. That comment was rather uncalled for. My apologies. I'm quite more than just a little bit grumpy at the moment (for reasons I better shouldn't explain here). But well, as said, my apologies.

But, I have also tried to explain how Stomp IO is different than just an audio interface and a midi controller many times so it can be frustrating (as if someone isn't reading what I've written before many times about it... and since we've discussed it many times I'd have thought by now you understood it).

Well, and I tried to explain that with the combination of a decent MIDI floor pedal, a USB audio interface and something such as Kore, you'd gain quite some extra comfort, possibly without losing anything.

See, my main complaint about these things (ok, basically there's just Rig Kontrol and Stomp I/O so far) is that they're not exactly built for a life on stage. Using a standard USB socket as *the* main connector in your setup isn't what I'd call sturdy, road-ready or whatever - regardless of how well you try to lock the USB cable. Plus, with the additional "wiring" whatever locking takes, the already short maximum cable length (5 meters for USB) is getting even shorter. USB connectors simply aren't anything I'd even call remotely professional, considering live demands. Because they're not.

If I were to design such a concept, I'd probably do it the TC way. You can either use their G-System as a "floorboard only" thing or take the audio portion out of it and place it in a rack. Perfect. Could pretty much be done with something such as the Stomp I/O as well. I mean, it wouldn't even take half a rackspace for the relevant connections (audio I/O, floor control I/O, USB). That would instantly reduce the USB risk, it would result in no audio cables on stage, reduced overall cable lengths, etc. So you'd just place it near your laptop (which has to be in a safe place anyways), connect a (hopefully non-proprietary) cable coming from the controller and be good to go. Even better for those of us playing wireless.
I'd probably even go so far as to put all the "programmer" things into the sound unit as well. You could place the thing "in reach". A floorpedal, by nature, never is "in reach" of your hands. Being a live guitar player for over 20 years, I know what I'm talking about. I always *hate* it to knee down just to adjust a parameter. And it's getting even worse once you have to deal with LCD screen menus. I'd rather turn around to whatever amp, rack, stand or so. Way better accessability. Kneeing down with your guitar strapped on is just nothing that you really want to do (unless in soloing extasy).

Sorry for the longwinded explanation, but why do you think am I struggling so much with my next live guitar setup, which I want to be laptop based?
I'm not buying a new MIDI floor controller for the fun of it. I'm not buying a dedicated audio interface and a dedicated parameter controller just for the fun of it either.
I would LOVE to see a proper "embedded" solution. I'd buy it in a heartbeat, even for 1000 bucks. But I'm not gonna shell out a single buck for something bringing me back into the days of bowing down in front of my pedal board, probably not even seeing what I'm doing due to the stage lights being too bright.

Anyway, perhaps a graph showing what benefits feature-wise you get from this is in order and that will be more clear apparently than me bothering to explain it on the forum. I try to!

Ok, I'd be more than happy to read any such a chart.

Fwiw, functionality-wise, I'd be quite interested in all the "utility" things offered.
What I usually need is a handful of "global" parameters. Such as global reverb amount, global noise gate threshold, global EQ, global speaker sim on/off. Even better if there was something such as a global patch modifier. You know the game:

"Ooops, too much reverb for todays gig, let me quickly turn the mix knob down!"

"Hm, sounds boomy today. Let me turn down the lows."

"What, no fullrange system today? Ok, I can use this guitar amp, let me just switch off the speaker sim."

"Yuck, all my clean patches are too loud today, I will turn them down."

All these are by no means esoteric. I've been through them *numerous* times. Right now, for a programmable, single unit, my aging GT-5 has done the best job regarding these things *by far*.
It's got global reverb, EQ, noise gate and speaker sim controls. Plus, it's even got two user customizeable amp models - if you modify their settings, the modifications are valid for all the patches using them. Most excellent!
For those occasions when the GT-5 didn't do the job (and soundwise it really only does the job for things not requiring important guitars), I have been carrying around a freaking large setup for years (amp top, rack, floor pedal, speaker cabs), not because I needed all the sonic options but simply because I wanted to be able to have quick parameter access.
And computers should make that task easier - not harder.

Fwiw, MainStage (coming with the Logic Studio package), seems to float my boat nicely. Apparently it's got all the options I ever wanted. But it's no embedded solution, unfortunately.

Oh btw, another shortcoming regarding AT and the Stomp I/O: I can't see how I would be able to use VST FX at all. Seems to be tailored for AT only. That alone would make it a no-go for me. If you ever played some smooth whammy bar chords through U-Hes MFM2 you'd instantly know why.
I can't for the life of me understand why nobody but Alien Connections (ReValver II) would add a VST loader module to their standalone amp sims.

Again, sorry for those longwinded explanations. And again my apologies for being a grumpy bastard.

[stag]

Apples and oranges can be compared.
They are both fruits, for instance. I like one better than the other.
Now this controller http://www.roland.com/products/en/VG-99/index.html wouldn't be comparable with stomp I\O?
Yes, it would. Like comparing a knife with a canon, they cost the same doe.

I understand why someone could wish that nobody bought stomp I\O... Just to avoid saying "i told you so" later.

[Squids]

Have you ever looked at Kore? Basically, it does exactly that.
Plus, you can assign each and every parameter to your favourite knob.

Actually, I need to get that. I am a sucker for controllers anyway... I even had the 4Control! (had? still have... never use it... and a Drebank 64... anyone want that? It's cool). Okay, so it has dedicated control but it is $500 and doesn't come with an audio interface anymore. Also it isn't a pedal you put on the floor so you have to get one of those and the software so since GR2 comes with both but for another $500 that's about the same price but minus some features like as many expression pedal inputs and gaining some others like more knobs (less suitable for guitarists and more useful for synth tweakheads... and I am one of those so believe me I am not saying I don't LIKE it! But it's not apples with apples in any case).

Anyway, I hear ya man. I hope things get less grumpifiying for you though. Sometimes I see a lot of anger and negativity on here and I think to myself "Isn't making music with tools like this one of the most fun things you can do?" I mean think about it... we ALL have it good with studios in our computers these days and making music as opposed to those that don't have the means or don't have creativity in their life. I for one am very grateful for music and the tools we have today.

[Lunch Money]

At those prices, I will never have those tools; therefore, no fun. That's not IKMM's 'fault'-- like I already stated, they have the right to set whatever price they want, and nobody is forcing me to spend that money. But man, you can't be all cheery about how cool the tools are when $1100 for the unit, plus $300 for ONE flavour of AT2 (not to mention any other flavours you might want) makes it an unattainable product for many of us. If I had $1400 to spend, it would certainly be on a good amp rather than AT2 and a floorboard.

The "anger and negativity" isn't necessarily just fury. It's an honest reaction to what IKMM has THEMSELVES presented-- a boutique-priced piece of software that has a very transparent money-grabbing scheme to it. Why SHOULDN'T IKMM customers be a bit "angry" when they're told that the MSRP for functionality that really -should- have been included from Day 1 is $99. Why on earth should they just be happy that IKMM has provided these 'fun' tools?

And as mentioned, part of the issue is that IKMM has lived up to their legend of super-delayed releases (StompIO announced 2 years ago?) only to present the product with a 4-digit price tag. Yowch. Hardly the merry-making marketing strategy.

[Antonis]

I for one am very grateful for music and the tools we have today.

+1

BUT...isnt it a bit unfair to have to buy another instance of AMPLITUBE (i mean AMPLITUBE METAL)so i can get what i was(wrongly as it turned out) expecting to get from AMPLITUBE 2 itself?
Wouldnt it be more fair if the amps and stomps and whatever else(of METAL) were incluted in AMPLITUBE 3?..same goes with the HENDRIX edition IMHO...
Still..im excited that a guitar simulation plugin designed EXCLUSIVLY for metal is on the way..its just that i feel a bit ripped off...

[Lunch Money]

I can't emphasize enough that I DO understand that nobody is forcing anybody to buy anything... (though, some stuff really SHOULD have been included such as proper MIDI functionality and this X-Gear)... but 4 amps doesn't seem like much of a "metal version". There are several amps that could have been included to make this thing an actual value-for-money proposition. Kranks, Engls, a few different flavours of Marshall and Mesa, some of the Peavey offerings.... I dunno. It just seems like a very minor upgrade. Whether or not you feel that Line 6's models are "quality", you get at least a pretty good stock of them in a $50 model-pack.

There's something to be said for "one kick-ass sim is better than 20 bad ones", so I do see the other side, as well... but 4 amp models doesn't jump out at me as much of a purchase incentive. And since Line 6 *is* fairly well-regarded for their high-gain stuff, it's not like their 12 models (or whatever) are pure dreck.

[stag]

Yea, and the suckers that bought the software previously, like i did, having a discount, instead of force feeding new modules... They could be the best thing since ever but the principle...

[blank/diod]

It really does seem like you can't win sometimes. Although you could think about all that and reconsider in the big picture all of that before you really feel so screwed. I know as a consumer myself what being screwed is REALLY like and this is far away from that!

Well... this isn't unique to IKMM in any way, it's something all companies get. You can bend over backwards but there's still always someone who feels screwed. If a new version is released and you offer a free upgrade to anyone who bought the previous version before July 1, so that they won't feel screwed, you'll get a ton of emails from screwed people who bought it on June 30. Some woman who felt screwed by the iPhone price drop filed a lawsuit against Apple and is asking for, what was it, a few million dollars? You'd think a $200 refund would be enough, but apparently her screwed-ness is supposed to be worth millions to her. A liiiiittle narcissistic if you ask me.

It's not like IKMM is greedy, they've always had amazing offers like the Total Bundle Series (save 67%, was it?), but that only amounts to more people who feel screwed because they missed out. Is there any winning this one?

I'll tell you what would make me feel screwed, if I was transported back to the 16th century and left there knowing that all the glorious gear I want to play with won't exist for another 500 years. These are fantastic times people, nobody's screwed, you're living the best lives ever on Earth so far! Screw you guys, I'm going home.