KVR Audio

Koe:rade · Post by **Koe:rade** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:54 pm

I am running my vocals through a TC Electronic Fireworx.
On some tracks I use a quite clean effect setting... just a bit of reverb and chorus (and I think some stereo enhancement), and on others I use a heavily distorted and compressed setting (with some vocoding).

With the second setting I tend to get a better tone out of the effect by almost whispering in it. To get the wisper to sound loud and harsh, you can imagine the ammount of gain I need to pump into it. This is fine when recording in the studio with my headphones on, but as soon as I try to use it live in my rehearsal studio it creates a huge ammount of feedback.

I know there must be a way to do this, as I have heard of many bands using this 'whisper' technique, I just cannot figure out how!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Koe.

Koe:rade · Post by **Koe:rade** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:23 pm

Also would this feedback just be caused by the speaker positioning in the rehearsal rooms (facing me)? If this is the case would in-ear monitors solve the probolem?

C00kie · Post by **C00kie** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:56 am

Koe:rade wrote:Also would this feedback just be caused by the speaker positioning in the rehearsal rooms (facing me)? If this is the case would in-ear monitors solve the probolem?

Yep, it would

Apart from speaker positioning (or having no speakers, or at low volume) the following can be done:
* get a mic that doesn't feedback that easy (e.g. sm58)
* put a graphical EQ in the monitoring chain, and reduce the offending frequencies
* put a noise gate or feedback killer in the chain

stefancrs · Post by **stefancrs** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:21 am

Short question: what kind of music is this for? name-drop a few other artists or something.

morphex · Post by **morphex** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:45 am

Hi Koe -

I remember you from several threads ago... you were just about to get the Fireworx or you had just got it. Totally sick processor isn't it? I hope you've been having some fun treating your vocals, sorry to read that feedback is causing you issues though. Didn't you ask about a feedback eliminator for your live shows before? If not, in a rehearsal setting, speaker placement in relation to you is going to be a huge cause of problems if they're facing you... but you already knew that I'm sure. You are going to need either something like a graphical EQ with feedback detection or maybe something inexpensive, like a Behringer FBQ2496 Feedback Destroyer Pro ($149 USD). Your other option would be to invest a little bit in a noise gate. DBX makes both high-end and consumer models that work well without cutting off transients, so you wouldn't have to worry about the gate chopping off the end of a phrase or an effect. A local Industrial/Dance group uses a DBX noise gate after their effects processors to help eliminate feedback when playing live. But using an EQ would certainly help if nothing else.

I hope you find what you need. And keep the lemons and honey close by for your voice, for when you perform any wicked Ogre-style vocals - raaarrrrr...

Peace - morphex

Koe:rade · Post by **Koe:rade** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:51 pm

Thanks for the replys.

morphex is correct, this is for Industrial/EBM stuff. The particular tone I am after is quite Psyclon Nine + Aesthetic Perfection inspired... But this is a general probolem I have had not only with trying to get this tone, but others (especially vocoding, as the mic just ends up picking up the signal coming from the speakers and the output just sounds like a synth).

I'm already using an SM58 live.

Okay, so in-ear monitors and all speakers facing away from me (FOH, no foldback)would do the trick you guys think? Even with alot of volume coming out of the FOH? If anyone has had experience with in-ears, how stable are they and could you recommend any decent ones?

Otherwise, a Feedback Destroyer or noise gate... Which would be better (if either)? I've heard very mixed things about feedback destroyers in general (not just Behringer), some people say you can hear them coming on (as in, feedback starts then dies away), other people say it badly effects your tone, others say they are frustrating to program... All of those sound like things I could live with in small doses, but it depends how bad the issues are... hmmm hmmm

Anyway, if you guys know, could you list what you think would best solve the issue. I'm imagining something like:
1. In-Ear Monitors
2. Noise Gate
3. Feedback Destroyer.

I've never had any experience with any of these 3 things what-so-ever though, so I have no idea!! ha.

Thanks again for the help!!

Oh and morphex, the Fireworx is great! I've created some really great samples with it thus far. Still having a tough time perfecting my vocal tone though, let alone feedback issues.

markroom · Post by **markroom** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:07 pm

use a noise gate-

stefancrs · Post by **stefancrs** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:15 pm

And a highly directional microphone and swallow it!

Anyways, for EBM/industrial it's not really whispering, more like, "screamy" whispering (as in whispering as loud as you can), no? Atleast if you do hocico-style vocals, haven't listened to the artists you mentioned.

Koe:rade · Post by **Koe:rade** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:05 pm

yeah, you are correct. "screamy" whispering.

Koe:rade · Post by **Koe:rade** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:13 pm

Can anyone recommend a good noise gate? I've just searched a bunch, but I've really got no idea what is good and what's bad.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:37 pm

You will have feedback mostly from other instruments, so in-ear monitors won't solve your problem. Although these are great anyway, if you have your own sound guy. I did some research on distorted vocals live and it seems there's no good, sure way to do this. Noise gate may work but it also may cut off some of the things you sing.

C00kie · Post by **C00kie** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:41 pm

If you can lower the volume of the backline and anything on stage / in the rehearsal room, then:
a) your feedback problems get far less
b) your ears will thank you on the long term.

Gargoyle · Post by **Gargoyle** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:18 pm

Koe:rade wrote:The particular tone I am after is quite Psyclon Nine + Aesthetic Perfection inspired...

Quite a fan of Aesthetic Perfection and others in that style, so if you have any links to your music, I would love to have a listen

Koe:rade · Post by **Koe:rade** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:06 pm

www.myspace.com/masqueradeaus

This is my (ex) band. We just decided to split up this week.
However, the particular tone I'm talking about in this thread is for my, soon to be launched, solo project. Which will probably be pretty similar because I wrote all the music for the band anyway.

@Rip. There will be no other instruments on stage... except possibly a bass, but that would be going through a synth to the FOH.

Koe:rade · Post by **Koe:rade** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:59 am

anyone had experience with the PreSonus GTX44??

Here's some info:

PreSonus GTX44 Quad Professional Noise Gate/Expander Features:

* Ultra-tweakable gate/expander
* Isolate Instruments using frequency dependent high- and low-pass filters and sidechain monitor
* Many parameters per channel: variable attack, release, hold, ratio, range, and threshold
* Duck mode allows for external input of microphone signal
* Flexible I/O: balanced XLR, unbalanced 1/4" via single TRS jack, 1/4" TRS gate sidechain/key input
* 10-segment LED for gain reduction

Does it sound like the right type of thing?

would there be any reason to get a feedback destroyer too?

Distorted vocals - Feedback issues.