XHip--Please finish your synth!!

[whyterabbyt]

"1) get steinberg to say so regarding the 'sdk'. i might suggest that they insert this important info into the source files at the same time."

why should i have to do that?

why should anyone have to do the opposite?

i have to disprove that something exists by supplying evidence?

No, you have to prove your claim of what someone's intention was, by getting them to unequivocally explain what their intention was.

you're obviously a complete retard since anybody with half a brain knows such a thing isnt possible, ever.

Back to the personal attacks again? You really are a hypocrite, arent you?

what i suggested that YOU should do however is possible and is in fact the CORRECT process to follow. inclusive, not exclusive. git.

Its not possible to ask Steinberg if their intention was (A) or (B), when you have assumed it is (A)?

How is that not possible? There's nothing being disproved, just one case or the other being proven.

But hey, if you can't follow that, I think I know who the retard is.

i do not have the sourcecode,

have you forgotten that it was your demand? wow.

however i've already 'proven' within limits that the reasoning behind their implementation was only to save time and effort.

No you havent. You just asserted it as fact. There's a difference.

i'm not aware of any other reasoning that might potentially argue for their implementation. if you are, please do share it with us.

I already did. You basically ignored the fact that it might be a valid reason, and posited an alternate methodology.

[whyterabbyt]

i defeated his arguments by showing through logic that they're invalid.

you've shown neither logic nor proof. you cant even stick to the actual object of discussion consistently, and every attempt you've made to 'prove' something has been on the basis of a misrepresentation of what was actually said in the first place; sheer dishonest bullshit.

im not even sure that you know what either of the terms actually mean.

i curse him due to my lack of respect for the man, not because i'm upset about what he says. he is a definite bad-guy and we would all be better off without him around here on kvr.

awww diddums. it must be hard for you when someone points out the flaws in all those bullshit assumptions you throw around.

[aciddose]

"you're obviously a complete retard since anybody with half a brain knows such a thing isnt possible, ever"

i said this because it is completely in your ability (isnt it?) to understand what i'm saying and to know the things i've pointed out without me having to point them out at all. you seem to argue for the sake of arguing and i'm just not interested. what i've said still applies and you in your last postings have not even argued those points, you're merely argued that your argument against those points "already exists". you're seriously a nut-case and I HAVE TALKED TO MORE THAN ONE OTHER PERSON ON KVR SPECIFICALLY ABOUT YOU AND THE ARGUMENTS AND PERSONAL ATTACKS YOU LAUNCH FOR SEEMINGLY NO JUSTIFIABLE REASON OTHER THAN TO INSULT AND HARASS OTHERS.

do us all a favor and stop posting here at all if your posts are solely going to be of this nature.

my statement as quoted above would have been better if it had been "in saying this you would have to be a complete retard since anybody with half a brain knows such a thing isnt possible, ever" i was pointing out that apparently you were ignoring obvious facts so that you could post an argument simply for the sake of the argument itself.

[sweet_trip]

i bet you two look pretty cute typing all your rants with frowns on your faces. i picture two Eric Cartman sitting in front of their computer going at each other...

[DJ Flexstyle]

whyterabbit has now been added to my ignore list. he needs to stop stirring up the debate when it's clear that people have moved on. is there a way to report forum abuse? because I think it's clear that whyterabbit needs a break from KVR.

[whyterabbyt]

i said this because it is completely in your ability (isnt it?) to understand what i'm saying and to know the things i've pointed out without me having to point them out at all.

No you posted it because I disagreed with your asserttions, and pointed out that they had no justification. That seems to piss you off no end.

you seem to argue for the sake of arguing and i'm just not interested.

actually I started off asking you questions, again. and you started claiming that your assumptions were irrefutable fact. again. then proceeded to insist the assertions themselves were proof. again. and then you got belligerent about it, again.

what i've said still applies and you in your last postings have not even argued those points, you're merely argued that your argument against those points "already exists". you're seriously a nut-case

you realise you're getting completely incoherent here, dont you. maybe you should take your meds. are you frothing at the mouth as well?

and I HAVE TALKED TO MORE THAN ONE OTHER PERSON ON KVR SPECIFICALLY ABOUT YOU AND THE ARGUMENTS AND PERSONAL ATTACKS YOU LAUNCH FOR SEEMINGLY NO JUSTIFIABLE REASON OTHER THAN TO INSULT AND HARASS OTHERS.

oh wow. that's got me convinced of how right you must be, then.

do us all a favor and stop posting here at all if your posts are solely going to be of this nature.

say please, bitch.

my statement as quoted above would have been better if it had been "in saying this you would have to be a complete retard since anybody with half a brain knows such a thing isnt possible, ever" i was pointing out that apparently you were ignoring obvious facts so that you could post an argument simply for the sake of the argument itself.

in other words you were bringing up another straw man. you're fond of them, aren't you?

[whyterabbyt]

i bet you two look pretty cute typing all your rants with frowns on your faces. i picture two Eric Cartman sitting in front of their computer going at each other...

respect aciddose's author-it-ay.....!! he assumes it so it must be true.....

[whyterabbyt]

whyterabbit has now been added to my ignore list.

wow, im hurt. who the hell is he anyway?

he needs to stop stirring up the debate when it's clear that people have moved on.

who has moved on? aciddose is still throwing out abuse. still answered my simple question though.

is there a way to report forum abuse?

yeah, PM a moderator, or Ben. Feel free.

because I think it's clear that whyterabbit needs a break from KVR.

Ah yes; not agreeing that something must be buggy because it doesnt conform to aciddose's assumotions is one of the worst crimes one can perpetrate at KVR.

Gee, Im really going to miss this genius reading my posts.

[bmanic]

i bet you two look pretty cute typing all your rants with frowns on your faces. i picture two Eric Cartman sitting in front of their computer going at each other...

respect aciddose's author-it-ay.....!! he assumes it so it must be true.....

I'd say respect the rabbyt police..

- bManic

[disturb]

it's weird how most users love xhip, and how coders love to hate on it...

[.jon]

That dudes been in need of a break for some years already.

wow, im hurt. who the hell is he anyway?

lol.

[offensive-teenager]

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/ ???? flame warrior roster?

[bobsled]

So...



...can we talk about xhip now?

[Leslie Sanford]

Regarding sorting the events, my approach...

Code: Select all

std::list<MidiEvent>::iterator it = events.begin();

while(it != events.end() && e.deltaFrames < it->deltaFrames)
{
    it++;
}

events.insert(it, e);

'e' is the newly arrived MIDI event. Events are stored in descending order; they're removed from the back of the list when processing. When an event is found with a deltaFrames value greater than or equal to the new event, the loop stops and the new event is inserted before the current event in the list. The algorithm works even if the list is empty.

This approach to sorting the list as events arrive would be inefficient given a consistently random input. But I assume 1) most hosts are going to be sane and give me the events in order, and 2) if an event arrives out of order, it's going to be an anomaly on the part of the host, i.e. a rare event.

So given those two assumptions, the above algorithm doesn't cost much and helps me rest a bit easier knowing I've prepared for the unlikely possibility that events will arrive out of order.

Some additional points...

MIDI events can have the same deltaFrames value. For example, if you play a very, very short note, it's possible that a note-on event will arrive at your plugin followed by a note-off event, both having the same deltaFrames value. This means that 1) if you sort the events, you need to make sure the sorting algorithm is stable, and 2) you can't use a data structure that doesn't allow duplicate items.

Have said ALL of that, this whole issue, in my opinion, really comes down do how far one is willing to go in programming defensivily. There's a point in which it starts to become ridiculous for a programmer to attempt to guard against every possible anomaly. Each programmer has to decide for his/herself where that point is. I respect aciddose's views tremendously, he's been a big help to me over on the DSP forum, and agree with what he has to say on this issue. It's just that, well, if programming in the VST environment has taught me anything, it's that my code needs to be as forgiving as possible. So at least here, I'm willing to put in the extra checks.

[aciddose]

i'll put the check and sorting in too of course. the whole argument occurred because i'm of the opinion that out-of-order events are actually not 'to-spec' regarding vst. i said that if something isnt inclusively defined in the 'sdk' or elsewhere then steinberg's hosts should be used as a reference. none of them to my knowledge send out-of-order events, ever. i then made other points regarding the fact that to my knowledge having the host sort the events should be optimum in every aspect.

that said, the actual sorting i'll write will only be five lines of source and a few hundred bytes so it isnt a big deal. i do not mind writing it, i just pointed out that if a vst plugin lacks sorting it isnt the plugin's fault if it doesnt work in one of these hosts which sends out-of-order events since that behaviour isnt to-spec in my opinion.

the only way to absolutely resolve this issue is to contact steinberg and have them define the proper behaviour. if the spec doesnt define that sorting is a requirement, we can assume it is not since all standards must define inclusively, not exclusively.

a good example of what that means has already been mentioned. the spec says that hosts can return through getcurrentprocesslevel the current process level, but it does not say that they must always return the 'correct' value. it doesnt specify what the correct values are or how to deal with them. it doesnt say that a host must respond to this request at all.

due to the things that the spec does not define, we can assume that none of these things are required. we can assume that the values returned when using this 'opcode' may not be meaningful. just because it does not say "the values may not be meaningful", it doesnt mean we can assume they are. this would be an exclusive interpretation - if something isnt excluded specifically it is assumed included. due to the fact standards must be inclusive, instead we must assume that because it does not specify that "the values will be meaningful", the values may not be meaningful.