rather specific advice for monitors?

[Nikolas]

Ok! Please don't link me to other threads here, since I have very specific situation... Thank you

I'm in a BIG dilemma:

Since august, or maybe a bit earlier I had arranged from someone I knew from the Internet, to make custom monitors for me, for a set price. The specs are the following:

Dimensions: 70cm(H)x27cm(W)x33cm(D)(without stand)
110x31x33 (with stand)
Power Handling:RMS Power 80W
Maximum Power 120W
Sound Pressure Level @ 1W/1m: 88dB
Frequency Range: +/3dB
à 30Hz …22kHz
Type of cabinet: BassReflex
Price: 850Euro

The price includes an amp with the following thingies:

I must say I am really proud of this unit! It incorporates one of the
best power amplifiers I have designed. The power amplifier runs in class
AAB with 100W in 8 ohms at THD levels below 0.1% (typ 0.04%) Capable of
driving levels up to 200W in 8 ohms and 400W in 4 ohms this amplifier
will most likely never go into clipping. Up to 10 W it runs fully in
class A so normal listening levels will have the best fidelity an
amplifier can provide! It uses high quality modern components because the
quality of an audio system is the quality of the worst component in the
chain. It has all the protections needed, its almost impossible to
destroy it unless u deliberately want it ;)
The features! It has 3 mic inputs where u can plug any kind of mic there
is… dynamic, electret, condenser all selectable on the front panel. Also
for every mic input a led bar graph displays the mic level so u can
easily monitor the levels so that mic preamp wont distort the sound. The
meter can display VU or peak in bar graph display or dot display. Also
the inputs available for mic are balanced XLR or balanced jacks. For
electret mics inputs are unbalanced XLR and jack. A gain knob lets u set
the gain of the preamp to match any mic's sensitivity. These 3 inputs are
mixed together and fed to the main mixer inside the amp. U can set that
signal coming from mic go to the stereo bus in phase or 180 degrees out
of phase. Also u can use a DNR (dynamic noise reduction) for bad
connections or when long cables are used and the noise floor rises. Also
u have a Send/Return Loop right after mic mixing so u can use the high
quality mic preamp inside the amp and then add a compressor or eq or
voice processor and then feed it back to the amp. The amp has one phono
input… who knows mb someday u'll need it J and 6 line level inputs (CD,
Tape, Soundcard, Aux1, Aux2, Aux3) Aux 3 has a high input impedance
preamp of about 1megohms. All these inputs are selectable by a switch on
the front panel and green leds show the current selection. The main mixer
also has a FX send/return loop so u can add other units to the chain like
eqs. After this everything is fed to the power amp. Precise VU meters
allows u to see the volume levels. The amp also has recording output
after the main mixing, mic monitor output after the mic mixing and a
class A headphone amplifier with 0 hiss! for ur great headphones!

and a hardware 1/4 EQ.

All this for 850 euros + shipping.

All this ok.

The further info was that:

1. I had 14 days to test them (since I would never be able to listen to them), and if I didn't like them, I could return them.
2. All cables included.
3. No money upfront. I would pay the full ammount to the delivery guy.

Well pretty much this.

This whole deal sounded great, to tell you the truth, and from the specs and what the guy was telling me (plus I knew him a bit "internet" wise from before) it seems genouine and fine!

Now it's the 21st of Oct, right?

This whole deal was stalled, and stalled, and stalled.

First he lost his business partner so he had a bit of a problem, but he would keep his promise.

Now today he told me that he could not afford shipping, so I would have to pay for shipping and the rest later one.

Needless to say, I am tons worried, and I'm seriously thinking of not buying from the guy.

And this is where YOU come in:

WTF do I do?

I have the money (more or less 1000 euros) since Aug. and nothing to do with the money.

I do think that custom made will be a much better deal than any factory deal, but where do I search? How do I try? What do I do?

Any links?
Any people you know (and trust)?
And monitors at such a price that will suite me? I need something rather good (not heaven), and I write orchestral stuff mainly, so I need something more than the usual rubbish floating around the net and the net stores...

Please help me...

Nikolas


PS. Sorry for the long post.

In the meantime I got a lovely new keyboards and the LynxONE both of which serve me great...

[C00kie]

I do think that custom made will be a much better deal than any factory deal

I tend to disagree on that statement. Due to low production volumes you'd get the same quality at double the price.

And as you've experienced figures hardy say anything about how monitors actually will sound. It's easier to go to a shop and listen which ones sound good to your ears.

WTF do I do?

Pay for the shipment. Describe as accurate as you can what you don't like about the sound. Do frequency sweeps to find the problematic area, and to find weather you get too much or too little in that area. It's also possible that it's not the minotors but the room acoustics you're having problems with.

Maybe the manufacturer can fix it, and then you'll end up with a good set.

[UltraJv]

If you already have the monitors, its complicated. If you dont - buy some decent ones from a well known company.

[johnny2johnny]

You want to buy custom made studio monitors from a guy who can not afford shipping?

You know. Music is like rocket science. That is how complicated music truely is. You have to be smart to make music. I don't understand the problem here. You could not get me to buy a 50 dollar piece of computer software until I have demo'd it for 30 days. The result of my experience with tracktion.

The only way I would buy custom made studio moniters from a guy who can not afford to ship is if you put me on a hunred grams of coke. and I would most likely be dead then anyways. I highly dout you will have a good resolution to this conflict.

[z15]

In my opinion, that sounds like quite a damn lot of stuff for the price - either the guy is doing his stuff pretty much for goodwill, hobby and fun and the price just gets him the materials and some work time and not much else, or there's going to be something that's not of too high quality. Either case isn't impossible. But even if he does deliver, he sounds a bit untrustworthy based on what you say and there's always the possibility that there'll be some problems returning the things if you don't like them.

Of course, it sometimes pays to give someone the benefit of doubt and you might be pleasantly surprised, but I wouldn't spend close to 1000 euros for something that I can't audition beforehand, that might suck and I might be not able to return. If the guy is having money problems and lost a business partner, it might be that he can't for some reason take the stuff back and pay you back your money if you aren't happy. Maybe he'll have to spend your money to pay some taxes or rent right away. It's kind of hard to say, some people can be really unreliable even though they would know their stuff and some people are totally trustworthy even when they have personal problems, and on the net you don't always know who's who. The situation you describe (buying monitors "blind", seller claiming tons of awesome features but not being able to even afford the shipping, etc.) sounds indeed somewhat iffy to me.

If you decide the risk isn't worth it (I would at least unless I really knew the guy well), I'd suggest to get a pair of decent compact active nearfields - they won't go as low as those custom ones are specced but you can still get pretty accurate view of what you're doing and at least you know what you get. For about 1000 euros I'd probably look for something like used Dynaudio BM6As (which I own and love) or Genelec 8030/8040 (which are pretty sensitive to room acoustics but sound awesome in a good room), a new pair of Adam A7s with a sub (haven't auditioned yet but my friends and half of the internet are raving about them) or something similar.

[Chopper]

+ how do you expect customer support after that? what about warranty? this sounds dodgy to me... try a few brands in store and make your own judgment. you know you won't regret it.

[iain_morland]

Don't buy from the guy. Business partner woes...yadda yadda...he needs to learn that the customer is king, to put it bluntly.

Consider some KRKs instead. My understanding is that Yamahas are often too aggressive/"forward" for orchestral.

Don't let any hi-fi shop salespeople talk you into getting absurdly expensive cables, BTW. It won't make a difference. Go for Neutrik connectors and shielded cables and don't spend more than 50 euros on them, I'd say.

Good luck! you'll probably get some hassle from your monitor-maker-man about calling off the deal, but you're within your rights to cancel it.

[himalaya]

I need something rather good (not heaven), and I write orchestral stuff mainly.

For classical, have a look at PMC DB1sa, Quested S6, Herbeth Monitor 20 or ADAM P11 ( Adam A7 maybe?) to name a few. These are serious monitors at just slightly over your budget, but worth every penny if your are that serious about your monitor choice.

Due to the Transmission Line design, PMC DB1Sa are especially known for a consistent sound across the frequency spectrum at all volume levels, which can't be said with ported designs, where the bass may dissapear at a very low volume.

Find a good pro audio shop, arrange a loan, so that you can demo at home/studio. As this line is simply not true:

I do think that custom made will be a much better deal than any factory deal

Harbeth,especially, is a very small but specialist manufacturer, which is as near a 'custom' job as can be with proven quality/track record.

[Nikolas]

Oh thank you people! I just saw the replies.

So the custom made is not the excellent choice.

I've already said no to the guy. Simply the trust is completely lost with him, so there's no way to trust anything from him. The begining was all nice and dandy, and now everything slowly degrades to less than decent, so the deal is off and I told him this morning.

I am looking to some PMC monitors TBS2+ or something (or maybe the TBS2A) which are rather above budget, but... I don't want to rebuying monitors if I outgrow these... I'll certainly go listen for a week, with my own mixes and tracks (which,. btw include critically recorded strin orchestras, and string quartets, along with samples, and loops etc, so I do need something critical) and I won't give in into quality.

Thank you guys!

himalaya: No need for a loan. I've been having the money since august (1000 euros) and waiting for the guy. If I have to add an extra 700-1000 euros for the "perfect" solution (not that there is one) I'll do it. I have earned enough in the meantime.

[thecontrolcentre]

If you already have the monitors, its complicated. If you dont - buy some decent ones from a well known company.

that's what I would do too ...

[Nikolas]

oh yes,

no monitors but GREAT headphones (Sennheiser HD600, which've served me well thus far). But as I said I'm going for some decent ones, at least.

[himalaya]

!

himalaya: No need for a loan. I've been having the money since august (1000 euros) and waiting for the guy. If I have to add an extra 700-1000 euros for the "perfect" solution (not that there is one) I'll do it. I have earned enough in the meantime.

You misunderstood. I meant...hire/loan monitors from your local audio shop.

It's always best to audition ( if at all possible) in a room you know well, rather in a shop.

[z15]

It's always best to audition ( if at all possible) in a room you know well, rather in a shop.

Seconded. Speakers sound so wildly different in different rooms. The new Genelec series I mentioned are a very obvious example, if the room isn't right they sound like crap but at best they are VERY neutral, effortless and accurate sounding.

[Shane Sanders]

edit: I'm going to put my post in its own thread as I think some might find it useful

[Nikolas]

I did read your post, but why not leave it here as well? Don't see the harm in 2 posts really... not in such a huge forum.