KVR Audio

jinxtigr · Post by **jinxtigr** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:06 am

Okay, whatever my crappy playing and ADC ground-loop (gotta deal with THAT soon), how's this? Mesa-y scrunch highs and some lows unlike the cascaded FireAmps (really designed for raucous lower-gain stuff and soloing in more of a classic rock vein)
http://www.mediafire.com/?59nngybwtmm

DavenH · Post by **DavenH** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:08 pm

siriusbliss wrote:forget the amp sims. KEEP playing guitar! Your playing is great.

Greg

Not me! Sorry I should have mentioned, it's by Meshuggah -> The true human design -> future breed machine[mayhem version]

I just am dying to replicate that sound.

@jinxtigr I will listen when I get home, at school here.

Dominus · Post by **Dominus** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:21 pm

jinxtigr wrote:Okay, whatever my crappy playing and ADC ground-loop (gotta deal with THAT soon), how's this? Mesa-y scrunch highs and some lows unlike the cascaded FireAmps (really designed for raucous lower-gain stuff and soloing in more of a classic rock vein)
http://www.mediafire.com/?59nngybwtmm

Doesn't seem to play with Media Player or Nero Showtime, is the file corrupt? (My iMac isn't on right now and I'm lazy.)

jinxtigr · Post by **jinxtigr** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:38 pm

It's an aiff. I'm a little surprised, but since the plugins are for Macs I guess I can live with it not being a windows wav... when I made a bunch of convolution reverb impulses, I ended up making them waves.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:01 pm

Amberience wrote:Also, as a general rule you can't expect to load up a single instance of anything and get an amazing guitar sound.

This, while true in some cases, is nonsense generally. In case I fire up my Twin or Boogie MKIV, there's instant great tone with one instance only.

And yes, I'm speaking out of a live player's ass only.

shogger · Post by **shogger** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:09 pm

jinxtigr wrote:So- since I'm not entirely familiar with metalhead amps (but like their sound when they're real), and have enough perfectionism to not quit

Oh, by all means, I didn't say you should quit.

jinxtigr wrote:but keep going to produce still another sim this time built for metal from the getgo- how SPECIFICALLY is the first demo failing to do the metal-amp thing?

This is where I friendly suggested to stay with sounds that you really understand. Doing such a demo and asking why it failed tells me that it seems to be a good suggestion to stay away from this type of sounds.

jinxtigr wrote:I'm quite serious- ...

I tell you man, you've got to give me better directions than that.

Well, listen to some good metal recordings and then come back to listen to yours. Hear a difference? What else should I say? Buy a metal-able guitar, some metal amp/distortion gear and learn to play some metal for a few hundred hours. This could improve your metal perception.

Shogger

P.S. Just heard your GrindAmp audio, what I told you above fits well there, too.

jinxtigr · Post by **jinxtigr** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:36 pm

I'm wondering how much of that is the damn ground-lift problem causing all that hum, and my failure to play it properly. Because I know I got several miles closer to the target- actually I thought it beat my Metal Zone pedal (damning with faint praise here?) and got both pick attack and some low-end. It was a mistake to try and put FireAmp up as an example- it's not even meant for that kind of gain and though it has its purpose it's a terribly retro purpose with no real relation to metal- at least not as a primary sound source.

The metal recordings I've got are: Zep, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, plus DVDs (Classic Albums) of Priest, Metallica, Motorhead, and Iron Maiden. Oh, also I've heard Slayer (Angel of Death), and some Suicidal Tendencies (Suicyko M*******, F**ked Up Just Right). Maybe this has something to do with it? What am I supposed to be hearing? Bear in mind that I absolutely hate typical plugin or modeler high-gain sounds, so I'm not likely to ever make a plugin that's slick and POD-y. I know some metal guys actually like POD sounds, and I can't help that.

I ask people why they don't like a thing to get them talking more freely about it, and because I already know what _I_ think and am trying to go beyond that to find out what I'm overlooking. I might not even end up matching what the person wants but I'll benefit from learning more about their needs... off the top of my head, the BIGGEST reason 'FireAmp' cascaded was totally wrong was, no bass. After that, it was not enough gain and an inability to do the 'scrunch' of pick-attack properly- after that, perhaps the total lack of a thick coat of 'color' on everything (which I hate, and isn't going to happen). And after that, it was the ground lift problem (now fixed) making a blast of hum and buzz, ruining the effect and preventing me from upping the gain even more.

All you've told me, Shogger, is 'stay away from this type of sounds' and 'listen to some good metal recordings'. You can tell me I'm wrong all day and I won't object, but what I need from you (since you can't even say 'that first one completely lacked bass' when it COMPLETELY lacked bass) is some examples of good metal recordings. I'm not going to even try to clone them but I _am_ very likely to learn something I didn't know, and that can't hurt.

So, what ARE good metal recordings not from prehistoric days?

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:52 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:
Amberience wrote:Also, as a general rule you can't expect to load up a single instance of anything and get an amazing guitar sound.
This, while true in some cases, is nonsense generally. In case I fire up my Twin or Boogie MKIV, there's instant great tone with one instance only.

And yes, I'm speaking out of a live player's ass only.

ah yes, but you gotta agree if you had 4 Boogies on 4 4x12s and a good place to play, it could be even more amazing..

jinxtigr · Post by **jinxtigr** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:31 pm

Followup- I fixed the ground buzz and made SLIGHT changes to GrindAmp, heard again here.
http://www.mediafire.com/?0aake2egzjt

Going back and replacing all the previous files, except nobody will ever hear FireAmp cascaded again, because that was pointless

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:57 pm

While this box looks great (I agree that high latency kills the feel of a good guitar rig) it's well out of the price range for many guitarists. Even though I could probably afford it, I'm not sure I think it would even be worth it to me unless I was making a living at playing guitar. So for hobbiests (the majority of musicians) is the AXE-FX something you'd go out and get? I currently get all the tone I need out of a Vox Tonelab ($350) SE and a Line6 Distortion modeler ($100 used). For added sweetness I run the output through a Boss VF1 ($200 used) and the end result sounds great to me and I've only spent $650. If I want added sheen I sometimes run it through a Lexicon MX1, but even that was only $400 (used). I guess my point is this: Don't dispair those who don't have $1800 to spend on an amp sim. Hunt and listen and you'll be able to get good tone for a lot less.

shogger · Post by **shogger** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:18 pm

jinxtigr wrote:All you've told me, Shogger, is 'stay away from this type of sounds' and 'listen to some good metal recordings'. You can tell me I'm wrong all day and I won't object, but what I need from you (since you can't even say 'that first one completely lacked bass' when it COMPLETELY lacked bass) is some examples of good metal recordings. I'm not going to even try to clone them but I _am_ very likely to learn something I didn't know, and that can't hurt.

So, what ARE good metal recordings not from prehistoric days?

Hm,

you say you won't change a thing but want to know some stuff anyway. I think we won't get any closer here so I leave it at that. It looks to me as if you didn't get my point.
Anyway, I wish you good success with your plugins.

Shogger

AndrewSimon · Post by **AndrewSimon** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:30 pm

zerocrossing wrote:I've only spent $650. If I want added sheen I sometimes run it through a Lexicon MX1, but even that was only $400 (used).

The AXE-FX is $1350 with the "watting list coupon".
$650 + $400 = $1050 ..... add 2-3 pedals (everybody seems to have them these days)and you are there.

Or you can look at it this way.
After I got the AXE-FX I am selling my Tube DI (I can get $200)
I am selling my 3 Xotic pedals ( paid almost $500 for those)
ahh... and I'm getting rid of my real amp ($1000) so I'm definitely there....
I was planning on keeping many of these but I soon realized the AXE-FX made all of them just sit in the closet collecting dust.

And there is more.... they all need to go, I don't have to sell but it seems many of the tools I have will never get used again because the AXE-FX simply replaced them and it does it better.

AndrewSimon · Post by **AndrewSimon** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:34 pm

HEY!

jinxtigr · Post by **jinxtigr** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:56 pm

I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking and got caught up in trying to get information. I'll stop. Kept it bumped for you anyway

AndrewSimon · Post by **AndrewSimon** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:47 am

jinxtigr wrote:I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking and got caught up in trying to get information. I'll stop. Kept it bumped for you anyway

No problem, I'll take the free bumps.

Guitar players! The search for Amp Sims is over AXE-FX