Avoiding The Cheese (LOL @ too many notes)

[90's child]

I am (trying) to make (musical) deep house for the dancefloor. However if I try and use more than 2 chords the whole thing begins to sound very cheesy.

For example, say I decide to use the classic ii-V-I chord progression (over 2 bars) in the key of C, I'll have Dm-G-C. I tend to invert say the Dmin and C chords so I can have the whole sequence within one octave. I'll then chuck a piano VST on the midi clip ( I use Ableton) and I'm ready to start composing.

I'll start with the bass line which usually just consists of roots and fifths with the odd seventh/passing note thrown in. Things aren't too bad until:-

I start trying to add a stab chord/rhodes chord. This is where things start sounding cheap. Over the 2 bar phrase, I'll have say a rhodes doing some inverted chords:-

A G G
F B E
D D C

BUT it sounds completely cheese. Not deep. Not cool. I even tried just using the roots and fifths of these chord but it still sounds tacky. Synth pads sound brilliant playing triads and triads with sevenths but I'm so bored of having all these pads in the backgrounds with a few incidental noises up front and the bassline being the most melodic element.

How are you guys making your tracks musical while still sounding cool?

(this music making thing is hard…)

[nuffink]

Don't worry too much about traditional progressions in house. To me one of the defining sounds of House is the parallel minor chord progression which, as it's name suggests, is simply going from one minor chord to another without any attempt at resolution.
House music grew up with the sampler. When you sample a chord and play it across the keyboard this (parallel chords) is what you get.

[90's child]

Thanks for the promt reply. What do you mean by parrellel minor chords? DO you mean going from say an Am straight to a Bmin because as you got further up the "sample" scale the sample would start to sound too granulated?

[nuffink]

Thanks for the promt reply. What do you mean by parrellel minor chords? DO you mean going from say an Am straight to a Bmin because as you got further up the "sample" scale the sample would start to sound too granulated?

Sure. But just because you're borrowing the idea of parallel chords from what happens in a sampler you don't have to borrow that technique. Just playing in various minor chords has the same harmonic effect without the granularity of a sample that's been repitched too far.

[90's child]

Cool. So tonight I'll try a boring i-iv-v chord progression. Am - Dmin - Emin and report back. I read somewhere that minor chords to minor chord progressions sound much weaker than a major to major or major to minor progression so I'm interested to try out your suggestion tonight. That may be where I'm going wrong. I still don't understand why a sample spanned up the keyboard would prevent someone from using any major chords though. I'm interested though.

[jackson]

I still don't understand why a sample spanned up the keyboard would prevent someone from using any major chords though. I'm interested though.

Because they sampled the whole chord being played, not the individual notes.

Less people in house than you think have a background in music theory. I'm classically trained, but I'll never contemplate my chord progressions in a house track the way you do in your first post.

[nuffink]

Cool. So tonight I'll try a boring i-iv-v chord progression. Am - Dmin - Emin and report back. I read somewhere that minor chords to minor chord progressions sound much weaker than a major to major or major to minor progression so I'm interested to try out your suggestion tonight. That may be where I'm going wrong. I still don't understand why a sample spanned up the keyboard would prevent someone from using any major chords though. I'm interested though.

I seem to have misled you. The technique comes from sampling whole chords. If you sample a minor chord and spread it across the keyboard each key you press will play a repitched version of that minor chord - parallel chords.

I'm suggesting you use a normal (non-chord) sample or a synth and play minor chords to avoid the granular effect of repitching.

Also instead of a i-iv-v try ii-iii-vi. You're not aiming for any kind of resolution and since these are the minor chords in the major key you'll find it easier to fit a melody over them. i.e. if you play Dmin-Emin-Amin you can play C major all over them without going out of key.

[90's child]

Great! This makes perfect sense gents. Thank you. I'll try all these tips and report back tomorrow. Thanks again.

[90's child]

Hey

This worked really well. I ended up writing a whole track based around Am7 and Dm7 and its one of my better attempts. With the bassline cycling around C and D. It really makes sense to me now not to HAVE to resolve chord progressions. Talk about keeping things simple!!! Thank you.

Nuffink your Dm - Em - Am chord progression does sound a lot better than my original i - iv - v proposal. There ARE a lot of old house tunes that use exactly this progression using a piano sound. The only issue is that you've blown all the mystic they had!!!

I must stop trying to over complicate things.

Cheers again!

[joshhunsaker]

Don't worry too much about traditional progressions in house. To me one of the defining sounds of House is the parallel minor chord progression which, as it's name suggests, is simply going from one minor chord to another without any attempt at resolution.
House music grew up with the sampler. When you sample a chord and play it across the keyboard this (parallel chords) is what you get.

yup, nufflinks totally right. this is one of those instances where static chord samples can really come in handy...